The (un)known missing levels.

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Bryankd2015
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Re: The (un)known missing levels.

Post by Bryankd2015 »

Wait until I get it done. I think you will be surprised at what I can do. The pic above does not fully represent the level is a work in progress. I am still trying to get the ocean in as well as other water if possible. The remaining objects are coming in fairly easy. As stated before. It takes time to make a level. Just doing some preview shots and getting opinions now. I am working on the existing bakers and sounds.. is no easy task, let me tell you.. I will be importing a few things as well.. eta at least 3 weeks. Thank you Tatu.
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Re: The (un)known missing levels.

Post by Draconisaurus »

Hmmm. So new Windows computers sometimes have an issue pointing to where the level files are, in GeomAdd and TresEd. TresEd seems to open them fine despite an error report. But with GeomAdd, in my case, I've had to create a folder with the same name as the level ("C:\JR\" etc.) to get GeomAdd working smooth. You could try that and see if it fixes the issue.
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Re: The (un)known missing levels.

Post by Bryankd2015 »

Draconisaurus wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 7:54 pm Hmmm. So new Windows computers sometimes have an issue pointing to where the level files are, in GeomAdd and TresEd. TresEd seems to open them fine despite an error report. But with GeomAdd, in my case, I've had to create a folder with the same name as the level ("C:\JR\" etc.) to get GeomAdd working smooth. You could try that and see if it fixes the issue.
Thank you. That will be a great save for me. I do know some of my asset files became corrupt so I have had to remove them. Presently I am trying to get another ocean to put on my plains level. It may not be best but someone could come behind me and clean it up if the level is of interest.
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Re: The (un)known missing levels.

Post by TheIdiot »

I agree with tatu - you definitely want to scale down your terrain objects if they are as large as it looks. Larger TrnObjs like that will become pixellated and stretched to the point that your landscape will look like a series of monocolour cubes since they are not properly tiled like the underlying grass texture that I can see in the image you posted. It will look a lot better if you simply place a big group of them and copy + paste them as needed around the level. :)

For the ocean, have you tried exporting one from a different level? You could try fan levels, as well - I believe JPDS has a large useful ocean object.
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Re: The (un)known missing levels.

Post by Bryankd2015 »

First let me address the terrain here. I have put larger over the terrain in order to get some screen shots does not mean it stays that way. Second as I recall I had exported the ocean from the be one before and it got messed up. It is a work in progress and I appreciate the words of advice.

I am doing the town over and the plains at the same time and can see a bunch of problems as they come up the plain terrain that had not been used was too bright for the invisible objects so I put those there as guide to what I wanted for now. Yes some puzzles are back in place I have some redo on multiple levels. Within a couple months I should be able to release a new version of the entire game as dream up in the 1997 walkthrough.
Screenshot (236).png
Screenshot (236).png (1.21 MiB) Viewed 208 times
Screenshot (235).png
Screenshot (235).png (2.05 MiB) Viewed 208 times

This is what I was talking about.. updated terrain pics little wider.. removed all the terrain objects. Curious though can you name them anything or do you have to keep the same names with new numbers?
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Re: The (un)known missing levels.

Post by Nick3069 »

Bryankd2015 wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 4:05 am Curious though can you name them anything or do you have to keep the same names with new numbers?
Here is what the File Formats documents says on that subject:
Model and Instance Names
Some conventions are required by Trespasser - the level will not load if these are not followed:
  • The instance names must each be unique, as they identify blocks in the scn and savegame.
  • The names of all instances of a model must be identical to the model name, except for the optional postfix number (eg. "-00","-01","-999"). The postfix numbers don't have to be consecutive, just unique.
Some conventions affect the way the level works:
  • Objects with names beginning with '$' are called $ objects, or physics objects. $ causes an object to be invisible, so it need not specify Visible=false in the valuetable (which is important for type1 geometry objects, because they will crash Trespasser if they are Visible objects).
The following conventions are found in the Trespasser data files, however they are not required by the game engine. (I assume they were used to assist level designers.)
  • Models are named Blah-00, and instances using that model are Blah-00, Blah-01, ..., Blah-99, Blah-100, ... . However, some models that are used only once omit the '-00' and and instance that uses it also omits that suffix.
  • Each model has a single valuetable entry, which has the same name. Thus all Trespasser instances of a particular model always have the same valuetable entry. (The actual value names seem to be ignored, an index is used to identify them.)
  • The model names seem to be ignored by Trespasser [Is that true? I thought they had to match the instance names or trespasser crashed (see above).]
https://www.trescom.org/files/docs/formats.html
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Re: The (un)known missing levels.

Post by Bryankd2015 »

Ok I think I get it. Say if something says rockbed 00-001 then you can change it so it is rockbed 100-00 and so forth

I guess the bigger issue is the terrain objects are pretty small and it would spend hours upon hours getting a name right when copy and placing them. Is part of why I enlarged them to see a basic outlying of what I wanted. So the better question I guess is there an easier way of placing the terrain objects without copy one at a time and placing them?

Look at the town basement for them and you might understand what I mean. They are single square tiles to do the large area shown above which is not even all of it would take a long long time.
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Re: The (un)known missing levels.

Post by machf »

The -00 object is the "base" one and all consecutive ones are clones of it, sharing the same properties. Any changes to the -00 object immediately reflect on the rest. Don't create an object with a different-numbered suffix from scratch! If you want a unique object which won't have any clones, it's OK to omit the suffix.
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Re: The (un)known missing levels.

Post by Bryankd2015 »

machf wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 4:33 pm The -00 object is the "base" one and all consecutive ones are clones of it, sharing the same properties. Any changes to the -00 object immediately reflect on the rest. Don't create an object with a different-numbered suffix from scratch! If you want a unique object which won't have any clones, it's OK to omit the suffix.
Ok I still do not get how to make this quicker or what I can do for it.
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Re: The (un)known missing levels.

Post by Draconisaurus »

Alright so, usually we do not change the names of instances that are not the -00 instance. Tatu will sometimes make a new number set, if you will, by adding something like "300" to an object, so that it doesn't conflict with the instances from levels he's combining... You can work with TRock00-00 in groups by making a clone, and name it "TRock00-10001", and then later "TRock00-20001", if it helps... However when you clone a new object, TresEd will always look for the highest clone number, and make a new one. So even if you have "-10001" and "-20001", if you go and clone "-10001", it will still make the new clone be called "-20002" because it's the next highest number out of all of them.

Your point on making, as example, "TRock00100-01" as a new set, is not something recommended. Because to make a new base instance like that, you'd need to manually go in and create all new physics models. $FTRock00-00" into "$FTRock100-00" and such.

But your basic request seems to be about how to make lots of objects. Remember that you can left-click-drag to select a bunch of objects at once with a rectangular selection, then CTRL+V to clone those, and move those where you want. This especially is good for groups of trnobjs, no need to place each individual one.
->Tres2020 Starter Kit

"Well, as long as you're under there, you can check the breakers," Thorne said. ... "There's a box right behind the front bumper. Over on the left."
"I see it." [said Sarah]
...
"The box is in backward. Flip all the switches the other way. Are you dry?"
"No, Doc. I'm soaking wet, lying in the damn mud."

~Michael Crichton
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Re: The (un)known missing levels.

Post by Bryankd2015 »

Draconisaurus wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 5:28 pm
But your basic request seems to be about how to make lots of objects. Remember that you can left-click-drag to select a bunch of objects at once with a rectangular selection, then CTRL+V to clone those, and move those where you want. This especially is good for groups of trnobjs, no need to place each individual one.
Ok so here is the deal. I tried doing multiples and I wasn’t working for the terrain. Maybe still wrong. But what I think is maybe I can leave the terrain the way it is and set the rest all up for level as I see it and then upload to someone there who could fix the terrain objects as they think it should be and both take credit for the level created. I can learn in the process.

On a separate note have issues with gates opening is getting stuck in terrain the gate leaving town altered back to where it should have been the gate I place get so cannot open them. I tried above ground the attach to ground everything I know of and replaced it several times. Currently there is not gate. Was debating on leaving closed gate there with boxes or something to jump over it.

When I get a chance I can post a pic if someone wants to see it. Just let me know and I will.
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Re: The (un)known missing levels.

Post by TheIdiot »

Bryankd2015 wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 5:53 pm Ok so here is the deal. I tried doing multiples and I wasn’t working for the terrain. Maybe still wrong. But what I think is maybe I can leave the terrain the way it is and set the rest all up for level as I see it and then upload to someone there who could fix the terrain objects as they think it should be and both take credit for the level created. I can learn in the process.
That's...odd. All you have to do to clone more TrnObjs (as with all objects) is select them and hit CTRL + C. You don't have to use the actual "Copy Mesh" button - that's only for useful if you need to create a similar instance with different properties. I would recommend you avoid the "Copy Mesh" function until you're more familiar with TresEd. And make sure you've got "Draw Terrain Objects" enabled when doing so, or you can't select them.
Do you mind uploading a sequence of images showing each step that you're taking when trying to add more terrain objects? I feel like you're doing more than necessary and it's making it excessively difficult.
Bryankd2015 wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 5:53 pm On a separate note have issues with gates opening is getting stuck in terrain the gate leaving town altered back to where it should have been the gate I place get so cannot open them. I tried above ground the attach to ground everything I know of and replaced it several times. Currently there is not gate. Was debating on leaving closed gate there with boxes or something to jump over it.
Is the terrain under the gate flat? You want to make sure your gate doesn't clip into the ground when it's opening. Make sure your gate is high enough off the ground for it to move, and that the ground doesn't unintentionally slope upward in front of it. The gate also might be Frozen in place via trigger, or isn't Moveable, which is why it won't move. An image of the gate and the terrain might help.

It's also worth noting that some objects have Magnets attached that allow them to move on only a specific axis, such as the gates. Something might be wrong with the orientation of your magnets, or perhaps the magnets are set-up incorrectly. You can see these magnets by making Invisible Instances or Triggers visible.
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Re: The (un)known missing levels.

Post by Bryankd2015 »

Well I guess it doesn’t matter anymore I broke the level and is no longer playable. Not sure why or how but it will not load in game anymore so back to drawing board. Guess it something about how I save them or something because every level I changed is no longer playable. Going back to the original untouched files and figure out what I am doing wrong.

Is there anything I am missing? I can open them up in tresed and do one simple thing and no longer playable. Have saved level everything in tresed but when load with game exe they cut to desktop.
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Re: The (un)known missing levels.

Post by Nick3069 »

There are many different reasons why a level might crash, try using GeomAdd's Verify Level function to see if it detects something wrong.
If the level crashes during the loading screen, the point the loading bar reaches when the crash occurs can also be help identify the issue. 33% is probably a mesh issue, 80% is probably a trigger pointing to a missing object, 99% is probably a texture issue. If it crashes after loading is done, then it could be because too many objects are on screen or too many physics objects are active at once.
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Re: The (un)known missing levels.

Post by Bryankd2015 »

Alright, I will try those. I did make a backup copy of the questionable levels and started with a fresh set.. but am pretty sure I have a terrain problem. when I deleted theterrain objects I scaled too much, I beleive I deleted a couple that where there before and that killed it. After resting everything else back to normal, the plain I was working on will no longer open even in tresed something happened to that one and I do not know what. starting over.

Question is.. I do have a bmp of the terrain as I exported it from tresed while I had it running.. How do you make a level with it.. Posting below..
it.wtd.bmp
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