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 Post subject: A terrain test
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2020 11:32 am 
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Brachiosaurus
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Wanted to see what people think of the terrain. It's a test with quad optimization and importing/exporting from tresed and 3dsmax.

Image
Image

https://www.mediafire.com/file/g1veqvzcohqiwqk/Limahuli.zip/file


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 Post subject: Re: A terrain test
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2020 2:25 pm 
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Looks good! Very detailed.
However, it will very likely not work on bigger maps as the more detail (quads) you include in smaller areas, you will start to see huge FPS drops and artefacts across the terrain. Something to keep in mind. :)

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 Post subject: Re: A terrain test
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2020 2:30 pm 
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T-Rex Killer
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I'm going to look at it in a while and let you know...

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 Post subject: Re: A terrain test
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2020 4:34 pm 
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Brachiosaurus
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I can always optimize it further when its nearer completion.

I wish someone would take me up on my offer to help me make a map hehe. Im thinking about just making some terrains and releasing them for anyone that wants to use them.

I notice TresEd auto optimizes bmp's you import but it's really glitchy in game. :( Maybe if i export it and then reinport it that might fix the glitches. Not sure.


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 Post subject: Re: A terrain test
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2020 6:03 pm 
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T-Rex Killer
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Had a look. I felt that even without any objects, the terrain was causing a tiny drop in FPS. I agree that less quad subdivision is a good idea here. Other than that it looks great...

I am interested in assisting with new mods. What sort of level are you interested in putting together?

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 Post subject: Re: A terrain test
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2020 6:47 pm 
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Teromen wrote:
I notice TresEd auto optimizes bmp's you import but it's really glitchy in game. :( Maybe if i export it and then reinport it that might fix the glitches. Not sure.


TresEd's heightmap import is really buggy. You will need to export it to TPM, import it into 3ds Max and then export it to TRR and then convert it to .WTD through GUIApp in order for it to work. That is why JPDS has a really buggy terrain in-game!

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 Post subject: Re: A terrain test
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2020 7:07 pm 
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Brachiosaurus
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Im gonna try that later tonight and see if the glitches go away. That would be a good way to optimize the terrain.

I can export the Heightmap at any resolution up to 8192*8192 from world machine but obviously wont try that high. It's a small terrain so I figure to import at around 256*256. I can edit the playable area to be much bigger easily though and just enlarge the terrain size in world machine for a big level. It's a matter of adding selections where the player space is and then editing the properties to look right. I'm still learning how to use these tools. Its a fun process. Always been fun since the 90's.

When talking about world machine, I do not recommend it for making first person shooter landscapes. Hard to get details into the map. But I love it myself. Took a while to figure out. The organic nature is nice.


This is the landscape in world machine.
Image

I could break that into a lot of small textures(like the single texture in the skatepark map) but it would prolly use up too much texture space. I figure after adding everything else there just wouldn't be room. Plus it would be blurrier.

Draconisaurus wrote:
Had a look. I felt that even without any objects, the terrain was causing a tiny drop in FPS. I agree that less quad subdivision is a good idea here. Other than that it looks great...

I am interested in assisting with new mods. What sort of level are you interested in putting together?


1. Maybe something like a radar dish and a boat mover at the end?

2. Simple map with key cards and dino fights? Maybe start at a long beach and have a trail leading to a shed and a small derelict boat sitting nearby. Climb in an underground sewer pipe that goes under a big electrified fence. Could at the end, climbing a tall cliff to the dish?

I dont know. Im not the best with ideas. But if someone gives me a drawing of what they think would be cool I can make the terrain for it. I wonder if we're all just out of ideas nowadays lol.

I don't know how to do key cards, movers or scripting yet.


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 Post subject: Re: A terrain test
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2020 7:46 pm 
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T-Rex Killer
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The idea you just wrote is a great starting point. Can be modified as it's made. I can collect and/or build assets like that given enough time. You might try experimenting with the import/export process meanwhile, just putting random things inside a fresh level like the skatepark, getting used to TresEd and GeomAdd.

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 Post subject: Re: A terrain test
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2020 8:15 pm 
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Brachiosaurus
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I did some optimizing. Imported a 256*256 heightmap to TresEd using the automatic optimization. Did the export/import thing. Optimized the outside areas with the quad tool. This is what I ended up with.

Image

It can be more optimized by hand later on. I'd hate to get that detailed on a test map though. The .wtd is 22KB.

Anyway. I'll try and draw something on paper for a map. If anyone has any ideas I'd love to hear them.

I'm gonna test how tall a mountain can be in trespasser. From the beach to the mountain top.


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 Post subject: Re: A terrain test
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2020 8:26 pm 
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T-Rex
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Location: Canada, eh?
Combined your last two posts for you. We recommend you use the "edit" button to modify your previous post instead of double-posting, unless 24 hours have passed since your last one. :)

Quote:
I'm gonna test how tall a mountain can be in trespasser. From the beach to the mountain top.

Is there even a limit? As far as I know, the tallest mountain ever put in Trespasser remains Mount Watson from the original game.

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 Post subject: Re: A terrain test
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2020 9:26 pm 
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Quote:
It can be more optimized by hand later on. I'd hate to get that detailed on a test map though. The .wtd is 22KB.

That's nothing. I have a .wtd that is 443KB that work just fine. TheIdiot and I made the whole game terrain into one big .wtd. It's 8192*8192 but it maybe take a third of that (but due to the island shape, it ends up being that big).

Again, detail overall is no issue, it will just have issues when it is in a small area. Over a huge area it is fine if spread out. Very detailed terrains will eat the CPU power even on modern PCs.

Quote:
I'm gonna test how tall a mountain can be in trespasser. From the beach to the mountain top.

Quote:
Is there even a limit? As far as I know, the tallest mountain ever put in Trespasser remains Mount Watson from the original game.


I believe that is a limit. I forgot what it is but having it too high will result in crashing during loading!

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 Post subject: Re: A terrain test
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2020 9:34 pm 
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T-Rex Killer
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I mean, it's hard to tell from here without scale reference but it looks pretty decent. Those little bubbles of details happen naturally from larger (more pixels) BMPs, which is why I started using tiny BMPs to import. I haven't tested it much but it seemed to work at the time. Basically in this case, the tiny BMP gives you the full shape you want, and you can add detail only in the places needed for the game. Below is an example of a tiny heightmap for Isla Sorna.

Attachment:
SornaFull.wtd.bmp
SornaFull.wtd.bmp [ 17.05 KiB | Viewed 636 times ]


Here is an example result:

Attachment:
IslaSornaTerrain01.png
IslaSornaTerrain01.png [ 445.17 KiB | Viewed 636 times ]


As you can see, no little bubbles of over-detail, and quite uniform overall without any special editing.

Hmm oh Tatu thanks. One detail I can relate is that, even TresEd finds Mt Watson too high. TrnObjs don't like to render up at the top inside TresEd, due to how high the mountain is. I forget the details but they don't show up on the terrain while you're looking at it. They work fine ingame.

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 Post subject: Re: A terrain test
PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 3:48 am 
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Brachiosaurus
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Does the LOD system work better with uniform terrain?


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 Post subject: Re: A terrain test
PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 5:38 am 
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T-Rex
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Location: Canada, eh?
Teromen wrote:
Does the LOD system work better with uniform terrain?

It depends on the level LOD settings. You can get the game to render the entire level in full detail, but the higher you push the settings, the less detail you'll be able to have in your terrain before the game starts having trouble. Having uniform terrain like in Draco's example will probably result in little noticable difference with distant terrain; the more polygons you add, the more detail you'll lose at distances.

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 Post subject: Re: A terrain test
PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 5:49 am 
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Brachiosaurus
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I notice very little LOD in the current build. That made me curious. I have CE with the max settings ini.


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