TheIdiot's Big Unfinished Level Dump

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Re: TheIdiot's Big Unfinished Level Dump

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Draconisaurus wrote:Hmmmmm... A laboratory in the middle of a desert, and a horror theme, remind me of Crichton's Prey (which I only got around to reading a few months ago). It is creepy that you don't remember what it was to be about.
Well, the actual planned setting never came to fruition...I likely would have gone with an underground facility with only a brief glimpse of the outside in the end, which probably wouldn't have been a desert.
Funny you mention Prey...ever since I read it years ago, I've wanted to make a Trespasser level based on Prey's concept of the deadly nano-bot swarm in a remote desert facility. Making them actual active enemies would be simple enough - some CEntityAttached 2D planes onto the heads of small, invisible Raptors would probably work, though getting it to really look any good when they attack would be tricky. Another level I don't have the time for, sadly. :?
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Re: TheIdiot's Big Unfinished Level Dump

Post by Draconisaurus »

Oye, that idea sounds scary - a little TOO scary for me at this time, I'm afraid. Possibly in the somewhat distant future. And, am breaking today from the mod-playing...
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Re: TheIdiot's Big Unfinished Level Dump

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Draconisaurus wrote:Oye, that idea sounds scary - a little TOO scary for me at this time, I'm afraid. Possibly in the somewhat distant future.
Ahh, may he be hinting at a return to level design? There is no escape... :wink:

And do you mean it sounds scary as in actually like heebie-jeebies, shivers down the spine scary? Or scary as in "another of TI's impossibly big ideas" scary?
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Re: TheIdiot's Big Unfinished Level Dump

Post by Draconisaurus »

Uh. ... Scary in the way of, that book was very scary to read. Mentally and emotionally, I am not prepared to go there in a medium-term creative duration, at this time in my life.

And, TI. We are at this moment both shocked to find out that you seem to have missed my post about returning to Jurassic Park and Trespasser modding, around two weeks ago. I am glad at least that this point came up, so that you can be aware of change of events as it happens. I point to this Smalltalk post - https://www.trescomforum.org/viewtopic. ... 44#p131144 - and will mention that since making it, I have also re-adopted Jurassic Park in general back into my life, while attempting to keep a hold of the fantasy vein of activity in some form as I proceed.
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Re: TheIdiot's Big Unfinished Level Dump

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Derp. I've replied to that topic, and I have to say I'm glad to hear you're back in action!
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Re: TheIdiot's Big Unfinished Level Dump

Post by Draconisaurus »

So. I just went through the Tres JP SNES level, balancing on-foot exploration with flying. It is, especially beautiful. All those vibrant colors convey the SNES retro feel very well. I did not realize the implications of exploring a previously-known space that is represented in 3D instead of top-down... various things were present on-screen at once that took me by surprise. I ddin't realize a mountain was so close to the main gate, for example.
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I immediately checked for ammunition in my favorite old spot, to the lower-right amidst yellow compies... Nada. I went downwards and into the jungle, finding.. no Raptors. And, no electrical shock strips.
Oh, as a note, the level crashed for me frequently, at first. I refused to not play the level in software mode, so I mixed and matched quality and resolution settings until I found that max-quality at 320x240 had very infrequent crashing. I believe the high density of polygons for the jungle-boarder model(s) was the culprit.
Moving on, I came to the South Utility Shed...! Yay, my old model finally gets to be home in his original setting. Like a long-term migration. It looked quite cute... I imagine that, if you had decided to move forward with re-creating the interiors of all the buildings from the SNES game, it would have taken you a further two years. : | So, sad as it is, that seems for the best. It was actually a bit odd, in that I felt at times to be semi-cheating, in that playing this Tres version of the map revealed relative locations and general map-awareness not available from playing the original SNES game. As a result I avoided certain perspectives and tried to stick with my usual paths through the map.
The mountains are impressive. Really too bad you can't climb them. I enjoyed seeing the retro textures in use, particularly in pixelation from software mode. The Geo Plant -ish water trench was nice, too. The blue helped the color palette of explorable area. That Rex was neat to run into... I am getting the impression you frequently do not import vocal cubes into your levels until late in development? I'm afraid I don't understand how you do it. Well, strictly speaking I can imagine you mental interpret that it's not of special importance and interrupts the proceedance to actual work on the level. But both hearing that basketball sound over and over, and missing the experience of semi-living AI in the engine as you test your creation, seems... depressing.
The major building mock-ups were fun to look at. I was sad to not see the trench-spanning bridges, or the herd of Gallimimus. And - really, you could have put those motion sensors Sam made in. That, that would have been fun to see. *sigh*

At any rate, very fun level! Thank you much for spending the time on it that you did, and for releasing it to us so that it's not lost. I also thank you for moving forward Trespasser's progress timeline for retro-game representation, such as was started with "Escape from Jurassic Park" and the tiny test level made for it. I still imagine that, one day, an SNES-styled Trespasser map will be made and released in a functional gameplay state.
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Re: TheIdiot's Big Unfinished Level Dump

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Glad to see you got around to the SNES level. I remember when creating the map how strange it felt to be able to see everything without the top-down limitations. It definitely would have been an interesting experience to compare a final version of this level to the way the original game is played. I find it much more difficult to navigate the jungle in this level than the original, but at the same time it's also easier to spot major landmarks and orient yourself.
That Rex was neat to run into...
I honestly couldn't remember if he ever made it in. I'd actually at one point done a bit more scripting on the Rex chase in that area to match the game, but for some reason the simple triggers were breaking the level.
I am getting the impression you frequently do not import vocal cubes into your levels until late in development? I'm afraid I don't understand how you do it. Well, strictly speaking I can imagine you mental interpret that it's not of special importance and interrupts the proceedance to actual work on the level. But both hearing that basketball sound over and over, and missing the experience of semi-living AI in the engine as you test your creation, seems... depressing.
Your guess that I don't find it particularily important is accurate. I don't like placing enemies at all until the actual world work is mostly done, which means vocals tend to be ignored until then. Remember that these levels are incomplete, and usually when I'm testing levels I have music playing anyway with the game's sound muted (unless I need the game sound for something) so I don't notice.
The major building mock-ups were fun to look at. I was sad to not see the trench-spanning bridges, or the herd of Gallimimus. And - really, you could have put those motion sensors Sam made in. That, that would have been fun to see. *sigh*
Well, again, unfinished level. The motions sensors would definitely have made it in if the level were complete.

And, in the future...you really have to use hardware mode to play any of my levels. They simply will not work right on anything that is not CE with hardware mode - classic Tres can't handle the detail, and I don't intend on reducing the overall quality of my levels for anything less than that.
That being said, I am aware that this level, regardless of what settings you have, is somewhat unstable. The jungle border things are not the primary issue...it's actually the bushes I used to fill in the area behind the trees, as they are all overlapping. This level has a general problem with transparency overlap, but when it was made I wasn't aware that the issue came mostly from that.
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Re: TheIdiot's Big Unfinished Level Dump

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TheIdiot wrote:I find it much more difficult to navigate the jungle in this level than the original, but at the same time it's also easier to spot major landmarks and orient yourself.
Interesting! My memory of the SNES game made navigation so automatic that I found it somewhat simple to always gravitate towards the remembered original locations and proceed in directions accurate to remembered navigation habits. Dying so much in that game, and going over the same exact paths over and over, set a lot of that memory in stone...
I honestly couldn't remember if he ever made it in. I'd actually at one point done a bit more scripting on the Rex chase in that area to match the game, but for some reason the simple triggers were breaking the level.
I originally checked the upper-spawn area ingame, and didn't find him there... I remembered that the mod package came with HD Trex textures, and checked in TresEd, then went to the lower area where he shows up to see what it was like. Not quite the same without the music, which funnily enough has already been put into Trespasser...
Your guess that I don't find it particularily important is accurate. I don't like placing enemies at all until the actual world work is mostly done, which means vocals tend to be ignored until then. Remember that these levels are incomplete, and usually when I'm testing levels I have music playing anyway with the game's sound muted (unless I need the game sound for something) so I don't notice.
Ah. I don't play music anymore while modding but it was a staple back in the good ol' days for me, so I understand. Still, I think even back then I would pause my music for play-testing... In my method, it's important to establish the audio environment of the level as it's made. This way it can be tweaked as an on-going side-adjenda, and inform the broader artistic design of the level as it is put together. Errors and mis-matching elements can be identified along the creation process. And, taking a step back, it is simply a crucial part of the long-term Trespasser experience to become inextricably familiar with the contained elements, to the point where you are hearing actual Trespasser audio files when read birds sing as you walk to the store outside.
And, in the future...you really have to use hardware mode to play any of my levels. They simply will not work right on anything that is not CE with hardware mode - classic Tres can't handle the detail, and I don't intend on reducing the overall quality of my levels for anything less than that.
I say, please do not alter your modding plans and modes due to my preference for software mode! I take the responsibility to adapt my settings as needed to successfully play the level, which all-else failing includes switching to hardware mode. I am a retro-Jurassic gamer and seek specifically to play and make low-graphics games. :statue:
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Re: TheIdiot's Big Unfinished Level Dump

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I originally checked the upper-spawn area ingame, and didn't find him there... I remembered that the mod package came with HD Trex textures, and checked in TresEd, then went to the lower area where he shows up to see what it was like. Not quite the same without the music, which funnily enough has already been put into Trespasser...
Actually, when I went to zip the files for this level, it turned out I had a little folder containing the music from the SNES game sitting in the data folder. Never got around to importing it, but it all would have been included as ambient sound (since there isn't any actual ambient sound in the SNES game).
Ah. I don't play music anymore while modding but it was a staple back in the good ol' days for me, so I understand. Still, I think even back then I would pause my music for play-testing... In my method, it's important to establish the audio environment of the level as it's made. This way it can be tweaked as an on-going side-adjenda, and inform the broader artistic design of the level as it is put together. Errors and mis-matching elements can be identified along the creation process. And, taking a step back, it is simply a crucial part of the long-term Trespasser experience to become inextricably familiar with the contained elements, to the point where you are hearing actual Trespasser audio files when read birds sing as you walk to the store outside.
I prefer to add the "main" ambient triggers - the ones that provide the background loop - early on in order to create some semblance of atmosphere, and then later once the areas are developed, I'll go in and add the random sounds. That way I can match the random sounds to the environment where appropriate, like how RTJP's VC has the sound of rats scuttling around over the jungle birds backdrop.
I say, please do not alter your modding plans and modes due to my preference for software mode! I take the responsibility to adapt my settings as needed to successfully play the level, which all-else failing includes switching to hardware mode. I am a retro-Jurassic gamer and seek specifically to play and make low-graphics games. :statue:
Gotta say, I can't help but feel like levels such as MegaJungle and Cloning Facility will lose a lot of their atmosphere when being played on software mode, especially if you end up having to drop their resolutions to sub-Gameboy levels. I'm definitely not going to stop you from doing it, but I will say that I highly suggest against it, at least for my own levels.
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Re: TheIdiot's Big Unfinished Level Dump

Post by Draconisaurus »

Scuttling rat sounds in RTJP?? I never would have noticed, cool... squeak.

Sub-gameboy, haha. More like Dino-Crisis-PS1-level, PS2 sometimes, with Sega Genesis / SNES where I can get it. I'll take your note into mind and see about passes through Cloning Facility in both modes.

~~~~~~~~~~~

Alright, sooo... I took a look at startlev--- I mean, "HorrorMod". I enjoyed the dull green terrain and dark blue fog, with dull brick buildings all about. Fairly atmospheric. Flying around a bit, the level reminds me of the "Suburbs" level from Twisted Metal Black. I can see how it suits zombie-stuff well... Going into TresEd, I had fun poking around to see the names of the various mock buildings. You really had a whole town fairly well planned-out... I tried to see how much the town might have been based on Burroughs but didn't find much. I like the inclusion of a lake and a swamp. You mention you felt the level was too "cramped" but this is a fairly huge area to work with, considering how many interior spaces there would have been. Really, not a reasonable completion perspective X_X

So. In thinking... I am pretty reluctant to work on your JPrey level, even as a backburner project. However, looking at this, I believe that if I scale it down a bit, maybe wall off most of the town and focus gameplay on a small urban area with some swamp/forest to boot, I could turn this into a Halloween horror mod for later this year. Specifically, I am imagining the use of ZomB and ZomA from JPDS~streams. It *would* require a bit of new model crafting, but considering the entirely fictional nature of the setting, I imagine this could be achieved without too much headache. On that note, if you want to pop in with ideas or contributions along the way, I would be down. I am imagining to begin work around the start of September, unless I change my mind.
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Re: TheIdiot's Big Unfinished Level Dump

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Scuttling rat sounds in RTJP?? I never would have noticed, cool... squeak.
And if I'd ever figured out how to create working CAnimals, there may well have been some actual rats running about (otherwise ASA animations would have worked).
You really had a whole town fairly well planned-out... I tried to see how much the town might have been based on Burroughs but didn't find much.
Nah, no relation to Burroughs or really anything in particular. I simply wanted to make a small suburban town that would be navigated in a mostly linear manner. For instance, barricades or parked vehicles would block the streets I didn't want the player taking. Again, it was inspired by Left 4 Dead and Resident Evil 2, so the level would only have been semi-open. Think of it as a series of linked maps, where you have to solve a puzzle to proceed to the next map. Ultimately you would have had to traverse every area of the map in order to get from your house in the small subdivision area to the hospital on the other end...I believe it went something like:
Suburbs->Church->Main Street->Gate Community->Forest->Railway->Swamp->Mansion->Hospital

If you'd like to continue this level, go right ahead! I see you already found the names of the buildings in TresEd, so that should help. I totally understand reducing the size of the level - it's excessively large at the moment. When I said it felt too "cramped", I meant that I believe the scale is slightly too small - everything should be about 10-20% larger than it is. The level itself was however meant to have a cramped or claustrophobic feeling, especially inside the buildings and alleyways.
Specifically, I am imagining the use of ZomB and ZomA from JPDS~streams.
You could certainly use those, although if you want to stick to the original concept, the dinosaurs aren't zombies or anything supernatural. You'll notice there is a mansion in one corner of the map by the swamp...the idea was that the rich guy who owned this mansion managed to recreate a few species of dinosaurs somehow, and unfortunately for him they escaped and were let loose on the town. Sort of like the plot of the Carnosaur novel.
It *would* require a bit of new model crafting, but considering the entirely fictional nature of the setting, I imagine this could be achieved without too much headache.
Well, the setting wasn't meant to be entirely fictional - I was going for a generic North American small town setting. Specifically, this town was meant to be somewhere in New England, like Maine or Massachusetts.

That's the majority of my input there. I might have some more ideas as you work on the level to pitch in. :wink:
Oh, and the level's final name wasn't going to be HorrorMod - it was a placeholder folder I had the files in. I have no idea what I would have named this. I know hppav had plans for something called "Resident Dino" back in the JPO days.
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Re: TheIdiot's Big Unfinished Level Dump

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"Resident Dino" haha. It's just a house with a dino in it who says "Hello!" when you open the door. X D

...CAnimal rat, not a good idea IMO... ASA rats, that sounds nice.

The barricade point for the town sounds important. Potentially I could get away with not modifying the size and layout of the town, if I barricaded a sufficient amount.

*watching pieces of gameplay to get the idea* Durr I didn't know Umbrella ever made giant spiders. They seem to like bad-idea science experiments. 'Nyways Resident Evil 2 looks interesting, and is as I understood quite Dino Crisis -like. I'll keep this in mind for development purposes. I am rather fond of this science-facility-beneath-a-mansion concept. And, I love the pre-rendered high-poly scenes with low-poly characters, so nice. I wish Trespasser could do levels in this format. I uhhh... You can't hold the camera in place, while the Player is moved around by the user via keyboard, can you? .. 0_0 *adds to Drac~Test list*
Suburbs->Church->Main Street->Gate Community->Forest->Railway->Swamp->Mansion->Hospital
That sounds like a little much for my estimation of available project time. In particular I don't feel like making a hospital interior. I would be interested in.. hmm. Using hppav's unfinished church, from the town level. Suburb, Mainstreet, Gate Community, I would have to asses size within the scope of the level. And I'd make the rail station minor. Considering this, that could work. As for the scaling of bulidings in the level, I could easily address that upon building the assets. I didn't know, that Carnosaur was a novel! Interesting. And, my version of this mod would be set in the Pacific Northwest, eheh. And, I can include that moon for which script is missing... I like the use of EastDock fog and feel like keeping it. I might brighten it a little; there have been frequent complaints on Klayton's channel from users who can't see anything in dark mods of mine which he plays.

Haha... I am 75% tempted to name this mod RD (Resident Dino). We'll see. At any rate, since Site C has been released already and was admittedly a bit too large for the puzzle design, this mod could be a nice way to actually put out a horror mod other than CursedArena. I note with some caution that this new project should take care to be small in scope and ambition in order to see completion.
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Re: TheIdiot's Big Unfinished Level Dump

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Draconisaurus wrote:"Resident Dino" haha. It's just a house with a dino in it who says "Hello!" when you open the door. X D
That sounds like a good level to me! Why can we never make levels where you walk around a safe environment and check out dinosaurs safely in their cages, like the zoo in Turok: Evolution?
I uhhh... You can't hold the camera in place, while the Player is moved around by the user via keyboard, can you? .. 0_0 *adds to Drac~Test list*
Unfortunately no. If you ASA animate the "Player" object, you can still look around with the mouse, and your body is visible still - you just can't move. If you ASA the "Camera" object, the player has no control whatsoever. :?
Also I think a third-person static camera would make the game impossible...no way could you do anything with Anne's arm accurately.
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Re: TheIdiot's Big Unfinished Level Dump

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I once started a level to showcase all of Trespasser's fan-added CAnimals... I was going to throw it together in a descending sloped area using fencing pieces and guard towers and whatnot from extant levels. It didn't get very far. I once also had a plan to create a level that would SCN-load all fan mods but didn't get to it, and the prospect of such a level seems increasingly hopeless in its dauntingness...

Mmmm. I am not prepared to give up on testing this ASA behavior so easily. I know sometimes I, myself, have held firm beliefs about the restrictions of the engine/tools, and been proven wrong years later. The additive ATX actiontypes must be looked at and tested carefully in conjunction with attempting to set this up. It seems possible that the desired effect will be doable in the engine, but limited enough to mean it should only be applied to specific ingame scenarios in whatever mod(s) it ends up in.
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