Mountain Valley

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Re: Mountain Valley

Post by Draconisaurus »

Thanks mate 8) It was my reintroduction to modding over the Winter, pretty satisfied with it.
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Re: Mountain Valley

Post by TheIdiot »

Just finished this level now. My first playthrough was incomplete as I thought I'd seen everything, but I'd actually missed something the first time around...anyway, here's another quick summary:

- I enjoyed seeing the classic Tres assets in use. After so many of our own levels using custom assets, it's refreshing to get that original Tres vibe every now and then. I like the treehouse in particular. The Mayan outcropping area was neat, though I felt it was a bit unrewarding to be worth the trek.
- Was not a huge fan of the level design, especially the way that the space was used. I felt like I was going in circles repeatedly an awful lot of times, and there were a couple of instances where I felt as if I'd explored the entire level and found nothing...I saw the hint about the "balloon radio" and could not for the life of me figure out what it meant by this as I saw this hint long before the balloon appeared. Eventually I sort of learned to just keep going in that one loop between the backup generator and helipad until something happened. Just felt like there was too much backtracking, and it got really tedious after going past that turbine house for the fourth time. :?
- On the other hand, I did enjoy the way things changed upon returning to locations - I just wish there were more locations to return to in different ways.
- I did enjoy the puzzle elements, even if they were mostly limited to finding keys. The final puzzle with the crashed balloon and radio was interesting, but it ended up also being very tedious to me because I ended up having to backtrack all around the level grabbing the various clipboards until one worked. Felt like I spent too much time walking back and forth to that radio, which again is the main problem I found with the level. In the end I used the "FLY" cheat to get to the final clipboard as I'd left it back in the helipad building (thinking this was the "balloon radio") with the other clipboard found there and there was nothing between the balloon and helipad of interest. :cry:
- The T-rex at the end got distracted by a dead Raptor and ultimately I just walked past him. A bit of a lame quirk, but not your fault. :wink:
- Finally...can I ask what the heck was going on with that radio?! It went from some sort of InGen service board to techno music to sounding like Jeff Goldblum! I think it might be broken. :lol:

I'm sort of torn on this one. On one hand I really like the overall concept, with the changing world and revisiting locations and such. On the other, the backtracking and getting lost really made it feel like a slog. I definitely think this one could have done better with a more compact design and different places to go and it would have been a lot more fun, but as I said there are only so many times I want to walk along that long, empty path between the same three locations before it gets really boring.
I'm giving this one a 4.5/10. It's a solid concept which just could have used more refinement to be more enjoyable.
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Re: Mountain Valley

Post by Draconisaurus »

Well thanks for your review TI. machf also found the level a bit tedious... Admittedly I probably lost sight of that aspect of the level, knowing already where to go after finding each puzzle element. Did you at least see the doll on the beach? Heh. I am a bit torn as to how I could have made this level different. It is a very small level already, and I wanted specifically the player to have to crisscross the level in order to finish puzzles, like Craters. Did Craters do this better? What was different? I wonder what could have been done differently in mine. Maybe fewer puzzles? There are 4 "keys" needed, and various objects to bring around.. On paper it doesn't sound that complicated but it IS a lot of walking. How does it compare to InGenTown, if you don't already know where all the keycards are?

Anyway, I like the path structure of the level but I'm getting the impression that, with the number of items needed to be brought around, the areas should all have been more connected to each other. Hmm. I'll eventually do another classic-style mod, I'll see how to make it different.. tho, thinking about it now, such a mod would probably have an entirely different design scheme, anyway.

Thanks for the review!
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Re: Mountain Valley

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It is a very small level already, and I wanted specifically the player to have to crisscross the level in order to finish puzzles, like Craters. Did Craters do this better?
I was thinking of Craters as a good example of how this sort of thing was done better myself. Craters has a lot of different paths, and they all link together, often leading from one objective back toward others. The level itself is also very compact by comparison - there aren't many areas where you have to walk a lot without anything else happening. I think perhaps you went a bit too open-world with this one...what I would have tried to go for is more of a "hub" layout, where there are one or two central areas which link to all the other areas, and each of the side areas has a path to and from the hub for quick access. That way every time you find something you need, you can quickly head back to the hub and access the next part rather. It's also obvious in Craters where you need to go as the level progresses, simply through being able to see the places you're eventually going to be heading. The trick in that level is completing each successive area in order to get the item you need to reach the next area.
Hopefully this makes sense. :)
Maybe fewer puzzles? There are 4 "keys" needed, and various objects to bring around.. On paper it doesn't sound that complicated but it IS a lot of walking.
The amount of puzzles is fine. I'd say one of the biggest issues is that you simply need to carry more objects than you physically are allowed. Perhaps doing a JPDS sort of thing when you find the frequencies (the player simply "remembers" them) would have helped, as that way you wouldn't have to keep fetching the clipboards. Like I said, it's a sound concept, it's just too much wandering around.
How does it compare to InGenTown, if you don't already know where all the keycards are?
That's a tough one. If you don't know where the keycards are, chances are it's also your first time playing the level and you're going to be so interested in looking around that stumbling upon the keycards comes as part of the overall exploraton (or at least it did for me). Maybe if Mountain Valley had more exploration than walking from A to B, it would help?
Anyway, I like the path structure of the level but I'm getting the impression that, with the number of items needed to be brought around, the areas should all have been more connected to each other.
That sounds about right! More connections, easier access to objectives. You could even have an exit to each area that can only be opened from one side, allowing you to go back to its end quickly once you've finished up there.
Thanks for the review!
You're welcome! :)
I myself have wanted to make a level like this for a long time, but as per usual I get bogged down in the details...
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Re: Mountain Valley

Post by Draconisaurus »

TheIdiot wrote:I think perhaps you went a bit too open-world with this one...what I would have tried to go for is more of a "hub" layout, where there are one or two central areas which link to all the other areas, and each of the side areas has a path to and from the hub for quick access. That way every time you find something you need, you can quickly head back to the hub and access the next part rather. It's also obvious in Craters where you need to go as the level progresses, simply through being able to see the places you're eventually going to be heading. The trick in that level is completing each successive area in order to get the item you need to reach the next area.
Hopefully this makes sense. :)
Hmmm I think it does...
Anyway, I like the path structure of the level but I'm getting the impression that, with the number of items needed to be brought around, the areas should all have been more connected to each other.
That sounds about right! More connections, easier access to objectives. You could even have an exit to each area that can only be opened from one side, allowing you to go back to its end quickly once you've finished up there.
I like this!
Perhaps doing a JPDS sort of thing when you find the frequencies (the player simply "remembers" them) would have helped, as that way you wouldn't have to keep fetching the clipboards. Like I said, it's a sound concept, it's just too much wandering around.
Well, it's definitely a little annoying, since the clipboards can't be stowed. Problem here in MV was that, there are 4 radio frequencies. How do you select which radio frequency is used while you're at the radio? It doesn't have any buttons. So, I solved this by having you bring the clipboards to the radio. Thinking next time I would make something like this a little less annoying.
That's a tough one. If you don't know where the keycards are, chances are it's also your first time playing the level and you're going to be so interested in looking around that stumbling upon the keycards comes as part of the overall exploraton (or at least it did for me). Maybe if Mountain Valley had more exploration than walking from A to B, it would help?
That makes sense. IT had way more to look at as you traipse around.
I myself have wanted to make a level like this for a long time, but as per usual I get bogged down in the details...
A voice whispers to you on the wind...
...SNES... SNES... SNES... quuuaaaarrrraaaaannnntttttiiiiiinnnnneeeee... SNES
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Re: Mountain Valley

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I myself have wanted to make a level like this for a long time, but as per usual I get bogged down in the details...
A voice whispers to you on the wind...
...SNES... SNES... SNES... quuuaaaarrrraaaaannnntttttiiiiiinnnnneeeee... SNES
I was actually hoping to do one where I could do a bit less modelling. The SNES level still needs models for the various buildings and their interior levels, which sounds painful at the moment... :sick: Last night I actually started on a new one, but as usual I can't get the stupid thing to load despite GeomAdd finding no errors...ugh.
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Re: Mountain Valley

Post by tatu »

TheIdiot wrote:
I myself have wanted to make a level like this for a long time, but as per usual I get bogged down in the details...
A voice whispers to you on the wind...
...SNES... SNES... SNES... quuuaaaarrrraaaaannnntttttiiiiiinnnnneeeee... SNES
I was actually hoping to do one where I could do a bit less modelling. The SNES level still needs models for the various buildings and their interior levels, which sounds painful at the moment... :sick: Last night I actually started on a new one, but as usual I can't get the stupid thing to load despite GeomAdd finding no errors...ugh.
What about loading it in CE GUIApp? It usually give better errors.
Active project: Trespasser: Isla Sorna
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Re: Mountain Valley

Post by TheIdiot »

tatu wrote:What about loading it in CE GUIApp? It usually give better errors.
Don't worry, figured out the problem, it had to do with the Start triggers I imported. :)
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Re: Mountain Valley

Post by Draconisaurus »

Ah glad you got it working. Was gonna have you tell me the start specs and I'd create the fresh level for you...
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