Trespasser HD - Beach / Jungle Road (BE + JR released)

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Re: Beach Extreme Detail Remake

Post by TheIdiot »

Looks sweet! Quite like the underbrush model there.
Unfortunately, that's the underbrush model that's waaaay too high-poly. The faces on top are something like 50 polys each for absolutely no reason, so I'll have to go back and make new versions with less.
*wonders if he should make an extreme detail mod of JR*
Actually, I'm quite looking forward to finishing Beach and moving on to Jungle Road myself since that's one of my favorite levels (along with IJ and IT - the latter of which will likely end up completely redesigned). :P I also really want to include all of the missing locations mentioned in the alpha walkthrough and make it much more open, getting rid of all of obvious rough terrain added in to reduce play area. In Beach there really isn't a whole lot to add since it's so small and linear, not to mention the lack of description as to what was originally going to be in this area in the walkthrough.

I would however be up for a bit of assistance modelling better-quality replacements for props. I have yet to improve many of the foundation objects (they need the holes in the top to be indented and the edges rounded off slightly), make the other two crates, plus I'd like to improve the monorail station and add a new gate to the wall among several other things. Even intending to make a new, better quality Mercedes-Benz Unimog and perhaps a brand new InGen Chevy truck.
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Re: Beach Extreme Detail Remake

Post by Draconisaurus »

Might I suggest using the Max-scene JR? Would be nice to see it used in a finished form. I can send you my work on it thus far if you like.. :) (It includes updated beach terrain texture).
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Re: Beach Extreme Detail Remake

Post by TheIdiot »

Draconisaurus wrote:Might I suggest using the Max-scene JR? Would be nice to see it used in a finished form. I can send you my work on it thus far if you like.. :) (It includes updated beach terrain texture).
Possibly. I'm not sure if I want to go with the Beta version or the Max version as I feel like the Max one is a bit too open compared to other levels, but the Beta version has some of the ugliest terrain in the whole game (note the roads going over mountains). I would however be glad to have your version so far to use as reference when I start on JR. :D
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Re: Beach Extreme Detail Remake

Post by Draconisaurus »

:yum: K...
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Re: Beach Extreme Detail Remake

Post by TheIdiot »

Been working away on this all day long, placing plant after plant after plant... :sick: Though it IS extremely tedious doing this, the results definitely pay off when you can specify what plants you want where and at what angle exactly (ignore the bad palm textures in the left-hand image, haven't corrected those yet):

Image Image

Creating a variety in the roughness and object use in small areas such as the one on the right really make things look more realistic, creating hallows and dirt-covered hills. The bumpy valley to the right of the road is a change in scenery from the lush jungle road between the beach and the Raptor encounter. I have made this area much smoother terrain-wise, but left its rough design using props and TrnObjs instead of the ugly terrain that originally makes it annoyingly difficult to traverse.
I've also moved the first box puzzle forward a bit from its original position, which also allows me to prevent players from seeing the brachiosaurs until they have finished the puzzle. The strangely-placed boxes themselves are also gone, which means that players will need to find a different way to ascend the ledge if they want to continue along the road. When I move on to Jungle Road and the other levels, I'll definitely be removing the strangely stacked and random boxes everywhere, forcing you to be a bit more creative or find an alternate route to pass obstacles along the road. Your motivation to stay on the road is that most of the plants now have collision added to them so that it is a bit more difficult to walk through dense flora, as well as allow me to add "Bouncy" magnets to them ala JPDS to add a bit of realism. I figure that the extreme density of the flora combined with the collision will motivate you to stick to the road once you begin encountering predators as you won't be able to see a Raptor until it's right on top of you.

On the subject of enemies, I do definitely plan to include a few extra dinosaurs that weren't in the original game: compsognathus, gallimimus, and possibly one or two others. I don't want to add too many more dinosaurs as I feel that it could quickly get out of hand, but I really want to do something to break up the constant stream of Raptors everywhere. Overall, the dinosaurs will have much less health (as is realistic); to counter this, there will be far, far, FAR less guns. I want to return to the survival-horror elements that were originally intended for the game, so the jungle itself will definitely get darker, foggier and more full of hostile creatures as it goes on, becoming the most threatening during Plantation House. 8)

That being said: would anyone like to perhaps see time-of-day change a little bit more rapidly over the levels? I'd really like to have Town take place at night to make it feel a bit more like the movie (plus to try out some new lighting effects), and thematically I feel that sunset definitely fits the ending of the game to give a bit of a visual connection to both vanilla and the ending of Jurassic Park. What I'm thinking:

Beach - Early Afternoon (Bright, sunny - welcoming)
Jungle Road - Late Afternoon (Still quite bright, but shadows are a bit deeper and colors more lush)
Plantation House - Sunset (Shadows reach maximum darkness, fog rolls in, a hint of a purplish hue over everything)
Industrial Jungle - Dusk/Early night (Less eerie than PH. Moonlight has not fully lit the island, leaving a bit of darkness)
InGen Town - Midnight (Moon is up, everything is a bit brighter and covered in a dark-blue hue as in TLW's night scenes)
Plains - Early morning/sunrise (Sky is pale blue and fog is beginning to disappear into the distance again)
Pine Valley - Morning (Still a bit less colorful, but overall back to the same brightness as BE and JR)
Laboratory - Midday (Bright and sunny once again, but a bit more cloudy than day one)
Mayan Village - Early Afternoon (Clouds are a bit darker, somewhat rain-like even, and everything is a bit greyer)
Ascent - Late Afternoon (Similar sky as MV, but shadows start to get deeper again)
Summit - Sunset (High contrast, purple sky, very similar to original dramatic AS-SUM sky and atmosphere)

What does everyone think of that timing? Do you like the atmosphere being a bit more spread out and varied, or should it stay the same as it was in the original (first 8 levels are during the day, and the last 3 are during sunset)?
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Re: Beach Extreme Detail Remake

Post by Draconisaurus »

Looking great as usual..
TheIdiot wrote:The strangely-placed boxes themselves are also gone, which means that players will need to find a different way to ascend the ledge if they want to continue along the road.
Not sure I agree with that but okay.. *wonders what would be used to ascend the ledge if not boxes* I suppose those Tres logs never got used much in the final game.. In my mind the ones big enough to prop up against that ledge are too heavy to carry x_X
When I move on to Jungle Road and the other levels, I'll definitely be removing the strangely stacked and random boxes everywhere, forcing you to be a bit more creative or find an alternate route to pass obstacles along the road.
So, supposing there are too many crates in Tres... What creative alternatives would there be that wouldn't sort of become the new standard solution..?
Your motivation to stay on the road is that most of the plants now have collision added to them so that it is a bit more difficult to walk through dense flora, as well as allow me to add "Bouncy" magnets to them ala JPDS to add a bit of realism. I figure that the extreme density of the flora combined with the collision will motivate you to stick to the road once you begin encountering predators as you won't be able to see a Raptor until it's right on top of you.
Interesting but why motivate the player to stay on the road? In my mind the road is the temptation, the sort of "this is too easy" solution, where I intend that the player should often find themselves straying from it for one reason or another.
On the subject of enemies, I do definitely plan to include a few extra dinosaurs that weren't in the original game: compsognathus, gallimimus, and possibly one or two others. I don't want to add too many more dinosaurs as I feel that it could quickly get out of hand, but I really want to do something to break up the constant stream of Raptors everywhere.
Sounds good!
Overall, the dinosaurs will have much less health (as is realistic); to counter this, there will be far, far, FAR less guns. I want to return to the survival-horror elements that were originally intended for the game, so the jungle itself will definitely get darker, foggier and more full of hostile creatures as it goes on, becoming the most threatening during Plantation House. 8)
Cool... Why in PH? My notion of the original PH is that it was the sort of "peaceful dino" setting that introduces you to them without the need to be on the run from them... Sort of the "ooo ahh" phase :P
That being said: would anyone like to perhaps see time-of-day change a little bit more rapidly over the levels? I'd really like to have Town take place at night to make it feel a bit more like the movie (plus to try out some new lighting effects), and thematically I feel that sunset definitely fits the ending of the game to give a bit of a visual connection to both vanilla and the ending of Jurassic Park. What I'm thinking:

...
Sounds good to me! Want to note that it seems from the use of the letters "SU" in TestScnNght start triggers, the final level of the game was intended to be set at night at some point. I do quite like it set at dusk, tho.
Plains - Early morning/sunrise (Sky is pale blue and fog is beginning to disappear into the distance again)
Reminds me of the old plan for Tres Reloaded... 'Tis cool, however I much prefer this level beating in the heat of the afternoon sun.
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Re: Beach Extreme Detail Remake

Post by TheIdiot »

Looking great as usual..
:D
The strangely-placed boxes themselves are also gone, which means that players will need to find a different way to ascend the ledge if they want to continue along the road.
Not sure I agree with that but okay.. *wonders what would be used to ascend the ledge if not boxes* I suppose those Tres logs never got used much in the final game.. In my mind the ones big enough to prop up against that ledge are too heavy to carry x_X
Well, I guess you can still use boxes as there will still be some lying around by the wrecked Unimog. I just find it nonsensical that for some reason there would be a pile of crates conveniently stacked up right where you need to proceed. In my opinion you should have to explore a lot more in order to solve puzzles rather than have the solution spelled out right in front of you. I'll elaborate on this a bit below.
So, supposing there are too many crates in Tres... What creative alternatives would there be that wouldn't sort of become the new standard solution..?
All sorts of things. Stacking other objects, fallen logs, knocking objects over, pulling a bridge down...there's a lot of possibilities. I'm really inspired by the alpha walkthrough, where no puzzle has the same solution as another. I really just want to try and get away from box stacking.
Interesting but why motivate the player to stay on the road? In my mind the road is the temptation, the sort of "this is too easy" solution, where I intend that the player should often find themselves straying from it for one reason or another.
That's the plan. The road also happens to be the easiest way for a dinosaur to get through the jungle, too, which means it will be the most likely place for a Raptor ambush. Not to mention the fact that it is often blocked in places, which should force the player off the road in order to find a way to pass. For example, in order to ascend the little ledge by the stacked boxes in BE, you have to head off the road into the jungle in order to find, say, a couple of crates or a plank of wood that you can use as a step to proceed. So while the road might lead you in the right direction, it is both full of danger and will frequently be blocked, forcing you to stray from it. :)
Cool... Why in PH? My notion of the original PH is that it was the sort of "peaceful dino" setting that introduces you to them without the need to be on the run from them... Sort of the "ooo ahh" phase :P
Yeah, "ooh, ahh", that's how it always starts...but then later there's hopping...and...and glitching!
One of the very first things the alpha walkthrough says in PH is "Anne can follow the remnants of another dirt road down off the side of Mt. Crick. The jungle here is getting a little darker and the mist getting heavier - it is no longer quite so comforting a place to be wandering through." And considering I'll be keeping the introduction of the dinosaurs in Beach, having PH be the "welcome to Jurassic Park"-type level is no longer logical. By this point it should start to become more challenging than comforting as JR is sort of the initiation level, warming you up for what comes ahead. You're way past the "ooh, ahh" phase by the time you reach PH as that happens with the introduction of the brachiosaurs in BE.
Sounds good to me! Want to note that it seems from the use of the letters "SU" in TestScnNght start triggers, the final level of the game was intended to be set at night at some point. I do quite like it set at dusk, tho.
Hm. Interesting. While I am a huge fan of night levels in Tres, I do believe for both thematic and cinematic reasons that the ending of the game should be set during sunset, as it represents the closure of everything and looks quite spectacular.
Plains - Early morning/sunrise (Sky is pale blue and fog is beginning to disappear into the distance again)
Reminds me of the old plan for Tres Reloaded... 'Tis cool, however I much prefer this level beating in the heat of the afternoon sun.
Yeah, I do too. :( I can't work everything in perfectly if that happens though. I am very adamant that IT take place at night and SUM during sunset, and if I put Plains during midday we'd end up with all sorts of clashes there. I think it will work though as the sky will be a pinkish blue and everything will be lit with a hot orange, giving the impression of warmth. :)
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Re: Beach Extreme Detail Remake

Post by Plotosaurus Rex »

I'd really like to have Town take place at night to make it feel a bit more like the movie (plus to try out some new lighting effects), and thematically I feel that sunset definitely fits the ending of the game to give a bit of a visual connection to both vanilla and the ending of Jurassic Park.
'The Idiot', if I may make a suggestion, would you put at the last level, a night with rains and storms, as in the first scene of the T-Rex in Jurassic Park. In my opinion it would give a better experience than a sunset :wink:
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Re: Beach Extreme Detail Remake

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'The Idiot', if I may make a suggestion, would you put at the last level, a night with rains and storms, as in the first scene of the T-Rex in Jurassic Park. In my opinion it would give a better experience than a sunset :wink:
Unfortunately, rainy weather is very difficult to achieve if not impossible in Trespasser CE. It works fine with ATX, but I intend this mod to be run on CE as ATX will almost certainly crash due to the amount of objects. I also feel that harsh, rainy weather during the climax is unfitting as typically by the end the character is past the "darkest" point in the story, which to me in Trespasser is definitely finding the abandoned Town.
If any level were to have rainy weather, it would definitely be Industrial Jungle as this is where the game will introduces some of the most difficult enemies, hostile environments and mysterious sights (the smuggler plane and BioSyn helicopter); however, I feel that a misty evening is preferable for at least the latter half of this level due to the fact that the level opens up and becomes a bit less claustrophobic after the Raptor Canyon. Perhaps I'll give rainy weather a try for the first half from the streambed to the end of the Canyon as I do agree that introducing the tyrannosaurus at night during a thunderstorm is a staple of the Jurassic Park movies. :)
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Re: Beach Extreme Detail Remake

Post by Draconisaurus »

I think a SUM level set at night with rain would be pretty neat :| Rain is doable in CE as long as you do it right and the level is suited for it... Those 24-bit rain objs from test~zone DO work, and SUM does not have lots of objs to bog down processing.

IJ in the rain sounds quite cool :| Might try that sometime...
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Re: Beach Extreme Detail Remake

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I think a SUM level set at night with rain would be pretty neat :| Rain is doable in CE as long as you do it right and the level is suited for it... Those 24-bit rain objs from test~zone DO work, and SUM does not have lots of objs to bog down processing.
I just think it is unfitting as the climax of the story - have always been a fan of going into the sunset. Also the view distance would be heavily cut down due to the foggieness and rain.
The use of those rain objects to cover an entire level - especially one that already has a ton of objects to begin with (Beach is currently at 7000 for reference) - seems impractical to me. I still want to see if I can get that CEntityAttached rain object to work without making the player disappear as that is definitely the best solution so far as it looked great and is easy to enable and disable.
IJ in the rain sounds quite cool :| Might try that sometime...
Hmm. It sounds better and better the more we discuss it. Have the clouds begin rolling in during Plantation House, then the rain starts as you near the end of the level and continues throughout the first half of IJ so that the Rex can get a rainy nighttime introduction (would even give me an excuse to do the rippling water effect as its footsteps approach). I would definitely have it stop towards the end of the Raptor Canyon though so that the view from the top of the cliff is not obscured by fog. The valley itself would however be heavily misted due to the moisture, making that whole sequence claustrophobic and eerie as you approach the Town, just like in the movie as this will be the area with the long grass. 8)

For research and realism's sake, how many hours do you think it takes for the average person to finish Trespasser? That would definitely help determine how much time will pass as Anne is on the island.
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Re: Beach Extreme Detail Remake

Post by Draconisaurus »

TheIdiot wrote:The use of those rain objects to cover an entire level - especially one that already has a ton of objects to begin with (Beach is currently at 7000 for reference) - seems impractical to me.
Yeah, I'm not saying the 24-bit rain always works. I am quite assuming it would not be suited to your BE remake.
I still want to see if I can get that CEntityAttached rain object to work without making the player disappear as that is definitely the best solution so far as it looked great and is easy to enable and disable.
Mmmm. Not familiar enough with the scripting for that but there is a thing about "TrackTwo"; I'm thinking a separate "sequence" of animations can be activated, which could be fully-transparent textures (or the rain sequence, whichever).
IJ in the rain sounds quite cool :| Might try that sometime...
Hmm. It sounds better and better the more we discuss it. Have the clouds begin rolling in during Plantation House, then the rain starts as you near the end of the level and continues throughout the first half of IJ so that the Rex can get a rainy nighttime introduction (would even give me an excuse to do the rippling water effect as its footsteps approach).
Sounds cool @_@
I would definitely have it stop towards the end of the Raptor Canyon though so that the view from the top of the cliff is not obscured by fog.
Me like... Maybe some drizzle mid-way through... Ah and perhaps lightning while it's raining in the first part of the level :|
The valley itself would however be heavily misted due to the moisture, making that whole sequence claustrophobic and eerie as you approach the Town,
*impression of not liking IJ3 as misted* ..
just like in the movie as this will be the area with the long grass. 8)
:o Noooww that sounds cool 8) Never thought about putting long-grass leading up to the Tres town... This could work!

Dahhh hmmm. What would you say to tag-teaming this project? I like the idea of doing IJ...
For research and realism's sake, how many hours do you think it takes for the average person to finish Trespasser? That would definitely help determine how much time will pass as Anne is on the island.
Noooo idea. Maybe 1-2 if you are experienced? And is this adding up non-death progress or everything from start to finish?
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Re: Beach Extreme Detail Remake

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*impression of not liking IJ3 as misted* ..
Not sure I follow that comment..?
:o Noooww that sounds cool 8) Never thought about putting long-grass leading up to the Tres town... This could work!
Well, it always made sense to me that the long grass would be in the final valley as the area where the mudslide they all fall down would presumably be that little ridge after the fence at the very end of the level. Alternately I was going to put the long grass in IT surrounding the north gate.
Dahhh hmmm. What would you say to tag-teaming this project? I like the idea of doing IJ...
Possibly, I'll have to think about that a bit as I specifically wanted to do BE, IJ and IT myself. Maybe we can split IJ...really was looking forward to re-creating the blighted forest area mentioned in the walkthrough as well. :wink:
For research and realism's sake, how many hours do you think it takes for the average person to finish Trespasser? That would definitely help determine how much time will pass as Anne is on the island.
Noooo idea. Maybe 1-2 if you are experienced? And is this adding up non-death progress or everything from start to finish?
This is just on the skill level of the average person, who presumably will die a bit and not bunny hop all the way through. Also no use of walkthroughs or anything. I saw a guy finish it in 5 hours in his first run online, and it took me about 5 as well in my first go.
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Re: Beach Extreme Detail Remake

Post by machf »

TheIdiot wrote:
*impression of not liking IJ3 as misted* ..
Not sure I follow that comment..?
"IJ3" is the last part of Industrial Jungle. IJ1 is from the beginning until you enter the canyon, IJ2 is the canyon until you reach the top and jump down, IJ3 is from down below to the fence outside the Town... the terms are used for reference only. At one time we speculated if they had been separate levels originally (and placed at different locations) which were then combined into a single level. IJ3 was featured as a demo at the E3 in 1997 (I *think* it was 1997, if it was 1998 it would have been several months before the final release in October).
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Re: Beach Extreme Detail Remake

Post by TheIdiot »

machf wrote:
TheIdiot wrote:
*impression of not liking IJ3 as misted* ..
Not sure I follow that comment..?
"IJ3" is the last part of Industrial Jungle. IJ1 is from the beginning until you enter the canyon, IJ2 is the canyon until you reach the top and jump down, IJ3 is from down below to the fence outside the Town... the terms are used for reference only. At one time we speculated if they had been separate levels originally (and placed at different locations) which were then combined into a single level. IJ3 was featured as a demo at the E3 in 1997 (I *think* it was 1997, if it was 1998 it would have been several months before the final release in October).
I know. :P What I meant was simply what Draco meant when he said "impression of not liking"...does he mean do I not like it or that he doesn't like it?
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