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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 5:21 pm 
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Gallimimus
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After listening to 170 and 171 in the retail TPA, I've convinced myself that they're probably shotguns (to me at least, they sound like the benelli). I grabbed the shotgun list from here and ran it through with the usual "gun - " prefix. Somewhat ironically, the one I've found isn't 170 or 171, but 154 (the other gun one).
Code:
Match: 69f03065 "gun - stoeger uplander 01"

Compare this image of a Stoeger Uplander to the double barrel shotgun on the TresCom weapons page and the resemblance is uncanny, although admiteddly it's a pretty stereotypical double barreled shotgun... Despite that, it sounds like a shotgun, looks like an unused double barreled one, and has the right name format, so I think it's a pretty safe guess.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 5:33 pm 
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Oh wow. We have a working version of that gun. Hmm uh, we out to put together a full visual reference of the guns which sounds have been found for. Also in case another sound-gun looks the same as this.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 4:13 am 
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OK, I don't think I've heard of that one... maybe it was an early model which was later discarded from the game? EDIT: Oh, right, I hadn't read the part where you compared it to the double-barreled shotgun...
I was guessing it didn't come alphabetically before "Colt" but actually belonged to the previous mini-group, after "Springfield"... I see at least I was right about that.

As for the other ones, I'm not sure if they're shotguns or rifles. Was thinking they may be old models too and I was looking at the Mystery Models for that reason, I remembered the Ancient Gun and was wondering if they may have uncommon names like some blunderbuss or musket or flintlock gun...

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 2:41 pm 
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I've verified the existing TPA lists and there seem to be a few mistakes, trailing spaces, and technically wrong characters:
  • 6DE801E6 is given as "Bone07" in 96, 97, 99, 103 but "Bone02" in 116 and 117. "Bone02" is correct.
  • 50784B5F is "VC A120 – H128" in 96, 97, 99, but this uses the "–" character rather than the correct "-" (it shows up as "VC A120 û H128" in my lists...)
  • Index 256 in Stream.tpa of TresTPAs.xls has the CRC BDED108E, but the CRC of "va139" is BDED108B. I think this is a typo in the CRC column since TPA player reports the CRC as BDED108B.
  • 2822C5B5 in 55 (Stream.tpa, index 569) is listed as "annelighthit5", whereas 96 onwards have "annelighthit05". The 05 version is correct.
  • 81ECB16E is listed as "tric-bite-03" in 55 but this doesn't match. I think the correct version is "tric-bite-01b"
The following are essentially correct but have trailing spaces in their cells (the correct versions are without the trailing space). I admit I haven't checked which sheets these are from, though...
  • F3E579C3 - "DRY FIRE A "
  • 8CC2BAFA - "Wood Stick "
  • E3C52B3B - "Metal Crate Large "
  • C3BDE1D2 - "Metal Dull C "
  • 3C1F5012 - "GUN - AUTOMATIC DRYFIRE 01 "
  • 8CE1ECF3 - "Basketball - Cement "
  • 8F4FEA56 - "PLACEHOLDER VOCAL "
  • 99784E9D - "ANNE FOOT BLOOD "
  • BF11C5BF - "Blood "
  • 2E83E99A - "ANNE FOOT SMALL TREE "
  • 37337362 - "Tree Small "

machf wrote:
As for the other ones, I'm not sure if they're shotguns or rifles. Was thinking they may be old models too and I was looking at the Mystery Models for that reason, I remembered the Ancient Gun and was wondering if they may have uncommon names like some blunderbuss or musket or flintlock gun...

These are certainly in an alphabetical section where "musket" fits, but I haven't been able to find any matches so far. I've also tried "mossberg" and "remington" as possible shotgun manufacturers (and others that don't fit alphabetically, in case they're outliers like the benelli) but no hits yet...

Edit: I've been listening to a few more sounds in the retail effects TPA. Extracting the wavs and using fc.exe to binary-compare the files, index 446 (AB68D478) is the same sound as "boulder small", and index 191 (E680FB41) is the same as "drag-wood-cmnt-light", even though they have distinct sample offsets. There don't seem to be any other unknowns with identical lengths to other sounds in that TPA, though.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 4:55 pm 
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LtSten wrote:
I've verified the existing TPA lists and there seem to be a few mistakes, trailing spaces, and technically wrong characters:

Trailing spaces are from when the listings were converted from the original .txt files into .csv files to be imported into a spreadsheet... I know there are some left here and there.
Quote:
  • 6DE801E6 is given as "Bone07" in 96, 97, 99, 103 but "Bone02" in 116 and 117. "Bone02" is correct.

Funny, I wonder how that happened... probably typing it manually instead of copying and pasting it from the retail listing to the Beta96 one, with the "2" looking like a "7" from a distance.
Quote:
  • 50784B5F is "VC A120 – H128" in 96, 97, 99, but this uses the "–" character rather than the correct "-" (it shows up as "VC A120 û H128" in my lists...)

  • Somehow the "autocorrect" on the spreadsheet has the tendency to replace the "-" with the other charater whenever it's between blank spaces, I keep manually changing it back all the time (for example, in the "GUN - " names this week or those "SPEC - " ones earlier), but that one slipped past unnoticed...
    Quote:
  • Index 256 in Stream.tpa of TresTPAs.xls has the CRC BDED108E, but the CRC of "va139" is BDED108B. I think this is a typo in the CRC column since TPA player reports the CRC as BDED108B.

  • Ah, that was when I first created the listing (the very first one) and was manually typing the CRCs (so the old text files probably have the same error). For the later listings, I used copy and paste instead for the whole column, after dumping the contents of the file...
    EDIT: I see the listing that contains that error is one where the CRCs are all in lowercase... which was one first made by someone else an published on the web. I first copied those and then added the rest where missing.
    Quote:
  • 2822C5B5 in 55 (Stream.tpa, index 569) is listed as "annelighthit5", whereas 96 onwards have "annelighthit05". The 05 version is correct.

  • Manual typing? EDIT: Oh, no... it's that they changed the name from the previous builds in build 55, I see... just like the one below. I need to change the reverse CRC value too...
    Quote:
  • 81ECB16E is listed as "tric-bite-03" in 55 but this doesn't match. I think the correct version is "tric-bite-01b"

  • One of those sounds which changed between the earlier builds and build 55, I guess. Some are in the same place but are different sounds. That one went unnoticed.
    Quote:
    The following are essentially correct but have trailing spaces in their cells (the correct versions are without the trailing space). I admit I haven't checked which sheets these are from, though...

    See above. I'll go through them... hopefully it's only in the retail listing and maybe the Beta 96 one... (those two are the earlier ones, we didn't have any other builds than the retail back then when I started until the Beta appeared, and I added the demo later)
    Quote:
    • F3E579C3 - "DRY FIRE A "
    • 8CC2BAFA - "Wood Stick "
    • E3C52B3B - "Metal Crate Large "
    • C3BDE1D2 - "Metal Dull C "
    • 3C1F5012 - "GUN - AUTOMATIC DRYFIRE 01 "
    • 8CE1ECF3 - "Basketball - Cement "
    • 8F4FEA56 - "PLACEHOLDER VOCAL "
    • 99784E9D - "ANNE FOOT BLOOD "
    • BF11C5BF - "Blood "
    • 2E83E99A - "ANNE FOOT SMALL TREE "
    • 37337362 - "Tree Small "

    EDIT: Apparently, those were from the Demo listing.. I'll check the other ones anyway.
    Quote:
    machf wrote:
    As for the other ones, I'm not sure if they're shotguns or rifles. Was thinking they may be old models too and I was looking at the Mystery Models for that reason, I remembered the Ancient Gun and was wondering if they may have uncommon names like some blunderbuss or musket or flintlock gun...

    These are certainly in an alphabetical section where "musket" fits, but I haven't been able to find any matches so far. I've also tried "mossberg" and "remington" as possible shotgun manufacturers (and others that don't fit alphabetically, in case they're outliers like the benelli) but no hits yet...

    I've also tried those same ones, without success, either.
    The Benelli is the first in the "shotguns" section, up to the Remigton 870. From Barret to Ruger Mini-14 you have the rifles. From Colt Diamondback to S&W you have handguns. And from Browning Hi-Power to Stoeger Uplander you have the earliest guns in Trespasser, most likely... (oh, and from Cylinder Click to Tranq Dart Rifle it's the "other gun sounds" section, apparently).

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    PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:39 pm 
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    Quote:
    I've also tried those same ones, without success, either.
    The Benelli is the first in the "shotguns" section, up to the Remigton 870. From Barret to Ruger Mini-14 you have the rifles. From Colt Diamondback to S&W you have handguns. And from Browning Hi-Power to Stoeger Uplander you have the earliest guns in Trespasser, most likely...

    Hmm, this last part sounds interesting. What then might be the original guns?

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    PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:55 pm 
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    machf wrote:
    The Benelli is the first in the "shotguns" section, up to the Remigton 870. From Barret to Ruger Mini-14 you have the rifles. From Colt Diamondback to S&W you have handguns. And from Browning Hi-Power to Stoeger Uplander you have the earliest guns in Trespasser, most likely... (oh, and from Cylinder Click to Tranq Dart Rifle it's the "other gun sounds" section, apparently).

    Ah yeah, I see that now, that ordering makes a lot more sense! I'm still thrown off by just how much one of those unknown ones sounds like the Benelli M1, but you're certainly right that from the names at least, you'd expect it to be a rifle.
    The same ones have been present since build 22, back when nearly all the guns (including the Benelli, for argument's sake) in those lists are in 01/02 pairs, so I'm surprised the CRCrevs are so different for these two. I suppose they could be generic "rifle" sounds, a bit like how "shotgun dry click 01" and "shotgun load" pair up later on. But these are full-blown gun firing sounds. Hmm...

    My current working theory is that they might be something like "m14 rifle" and "m14a1 rifle", that kind of thing (or m1 garand and m1 carbine). Doesn't help that I hardly know anything about guns either.

    Also, my earlier post of "here are a load of issues" wasn't supposed to sound so critical - it's all intended in a constructive feedback way of "here's a thing I noticed"! ;)

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    PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:04 pm 
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    LtSten wrote:
    Ah yeah, I see that now, that ordering makes a lot more sense! I'm still thrown off by just how much one of those unknown ones sounds like the Benelli M1, but you're certainly right that from the names at least, you'd expect it to be a rifle.
    The same ones have been present since build 22, back when nearly all the guns (including the Benelli, for argument's sake) in those lists are in 01/02 pairs, so I'm surprised the CRCrevs are so different for these two. I suppose they could be generic "rifle" sounds, a bit like how "shotgun dry click 01" and "shotgun load" pair up later on. But these are full-blown gun firing sounds. Hmm...

    Or one of them might be a typo... which can be tested with my program, by placing dummy characters in the final positions and increasing their number progressively until you see a pair which more or less match. For example, "***01 and "***02" giving you a difference in a single character from the previous 4 ones (where the difference is the same that there is between the ASCII code for the letter "O" and for the number "0", for example) would mean that both names are equal in every other character but one of them replaced a "0" with an "o" by mistake...
    Or maybe a transposition, like those alarm sounds where the third one in a row is typed as "kalxon" instead of "klaxon" like the previous two...
    Quote:
    My current working theory is that they might be something like "m14 rifle" and "m14a1 rifle", that kind of thing (or m1 garand and m1 carbine). Doesn't help that I hardly know anything about guns either.

    Yeah, me neither, unfortunately, and I've been hoping someone who can tell by the sound what actual gun it is shows up on the forum...
    EDIT: I also wanted to search the sound effects listings from Soundelux (now woned bySoundDogs, where you can search them) to see what gun sounds were there. Unfortunately, looking for "stoeger" last night found no results, so that probably means the gun sounds came from a different source...

    I'm going to upload the corrected listings now, with those two gun names added, too. I've also updated the listing for TPAplayer with the corrections...

    EDIT: the updated listings have already been uploaded to the server.

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    PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:51 pm 
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    LtSten wrote:
    Ah yeah, I see that now, that ordering makes a lot more sense! I'm still thrown off by just how much one of those unknown ones sounds like the Benelli M1, but you're certainly right that from the names at least, you'd expect it to be a rifle.

    You know, I'm realizing even the groups' names may be sorted alphabetically:

    • Handguns
    • Rifles
    • Shotguns
    • Submachine guns (the H&K MP-5 in the earliest builds!)
    • Various

    That could correspond to the sound files being sorted inside folders with corresponding names... with the older names (Browning to Stoeger) being at the root folder. If you look at the test.eel file (which contains the list of the sounds for the Ambient.tpa file from the release/build 116), you'll see that's mostly the case...

    As for the missing sounds sounding more like shotguns... maybe they are something like the Barrett .50 caliber, which is a rifle but makes such a sound. Makes you wonder what other similar rifles there exist...


    EDIT: replying to your previous edits which I hadn't noticed until now...

    LtSten wrote:
    Edit: I've been listening to a few more sounds in the retail effects TPA. Extracting the wavs and using fc.exe to binary-compare the files, index 446 (AB68D478) is the same sound as "boulder small", and index 191 (E680FB41) is the same as "drag-wood-cmnt-light", even though they have distinct sample offsets. There don't seem to be any other unknowns with identical lengths to other sounds in that TPA, though.

    Yes, I somehow suspect the first has soemthing to do with "boulder", and for the second I've even tried "Drag-Wood-Small-Cement" (since there's another one which is "Drag-Wood-Small-Dirt"), but with no luck...

    LtSten wrote:
    Also, my earlier post of "here are a load of issues" wasn't supposed to sound so critical - it's all intended in a constructive feedback way of "here's a thing I noticed"! ;)

    Yeah, I guessed you were bored not having found other names so far... it's good to have pointed out those typos/errors.

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    PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:42 pm 
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    That sequence discovery seems fairly awesome...
    Shadow Wolf who used to come here seems to be a real-gun enthusiast. I hope to bring his attention to this thread.

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    PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:04 am 
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    LtSten wrote:
    Edit: I've been listening to a few more sounds in the retail effects TPA. Extracting the wavs and using fc.exe to binary-compare the files, index 446 (AB68D478) is the same sound as "boulder small", and index 191 (E680FB41) is the same as "drag-wood-cmnt-light", even though they have distinct sample offsets. There don't seem to be any other unknowns with identical lengths to other sounds in that TPA, though.

    For E680FB41, guess what turns out to be a match... "drag-wood-cmnt-light.zdf". What an odd extension.

    I compared both remaiing gun sounds, too. They're differnt by 10 bytes only. And looking at their waveforms, they are pretty similar. I tried to see if it was a case of one ending in " REL" like "GUN - MAC-10" and "GUN - MAC-10 REL" do, but no luck with that either...

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    PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:45 pm 
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    Are we missing 8 samples from the retail Effects.tpa, machf? I just rebuilt the effects.tpa the trilogy package uses
    and entries # 171, 191, 263, 436, 446, 454, 455 and 456 have no match. Is that correct?

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    PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:33 pm 
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    Rebel wrote:
    Are we missing 8 samples from the retail Effects.tpa, machf? I just rebuilt the effects.tpa the trilogy package uses
    and entries # 171, 191, 263, 436, 446, 454, 455 and 456 have no match. Is that correct?


    From the retail, it's #2, #170, #171, #263, #446, #454, $455, and #456 (with MISSING being #0). #191 is the one I just posted above, and LtSten found #436 while the forum was down, too (and I had been SO CLOSE to finding it too!).

    Code:
    806DC7ED   SPEC-WOODEN DOOR HINGE


    I had tried "SPEC-WOODEN DOOR CREAK", "SPEC-DOOR HINGE CREAK", and later, both with "SQUEAK" replacing "CREAK", and I never tried combining them into one... makes me want to bang my head against the wall.

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    PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:39 am 
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    Quote:
    I had tried "SPEC-WOODEN DOOR CREAK", "SPEC-DOOR HINGE CREAK", and later, both with "SQUEAK" replacing "CREAK", and I never tried combining them into one... makes me want to bang my head against the wall.


    Lol. Well, don't do that. You've got one of the better brains around here, I wouldn't want to see you lose any of that gray matter. ;)
    And thanks for the clarification.

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    PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:40 am 
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    Quote:
    I had tried "SPEC-WOODEN DOOR CREAK", "SPEC-DOOR HINGE CREAK", and later, both with "SQUEAK" replacing "CREAK", and I never tried combining them into one... makes me want to bang my head against the wall.


    Lol. Well, don't do that. You've got one of the better brains around here, I wouldn't want to see you lose any of that gray matter. ;)
    And thanks for the clarification.

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