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 Post subject: Trespasser: Unreal
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:44 am 
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Parasaurus
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Well after watching the projects in CryEngine and Unity3D I just had to do some stuff in Unreal.

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 Post subject: Re: Trespasser: Unreal
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:43 am 
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Awesome :-)

Good to see more projects!

As a UDK user, you might be able to answer this question.
My island is 4096x4096 and in CryEngine has a minimum detail of 1 metre. Can UDK support a map as big and how fine can the detail be at this size?

I tried finding this out myself, but unfortunately had no luck.

Cheers, and welcome (back) to the forum.

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 Post subject: Re: Trespasser: Unreal
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:17 am 
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Dilophosaurus
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Niiiiice 8)


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 Post subject: Re: Trespasser: Unreal
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:13 pm 
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Parasaurus
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Quote:
Can UDK support a map as big and how fine can the detail be at this size?

Well bigest recomended size for a UDK landscape is, 4033x4033 you should check out http://udn.epicgames.com/Three/LandscapeCreating.html which sais the exact level of detail.

For the Island I actually made it 2017x2017 as it's plenty enaugh in UDK.


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 Post subject: Re: Trespasser: Unreal
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:53 pm 
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So with the level you have made, whats the smallest terrain detail you can make?
Cryengine allows me to go as low as one metre, which is fine if you plan to use lots of rock models to build it up, but it can look pretty blocky at times. This applies to both CE2 and CE3.

From what i could gather, the bigger the map, the less detailed it can be. So a 512 map might allow detail as small as 25cm, but once you get up to the 4033 size you mentioned, minimum detail could rise to over a metre. This is not such a big deal when working on smaller individual levels (Trespasser levels are only 512 or 1024 in size), but the disadvantage of using smaller maps is that unless you render a sky box of the whole island, you wont be able to see the geometry in the distance. This means you cant see Mt Watson on the horizon. Using lots of fog can help hide this, but once your on the top of the summit and looking out over the whole island, players can see where the map ends.

A thick layer of low cloud could hide all this i suppose, but the more i thought about it, the more i had to have the whole island as one map.

Anyway, keep the updates coming, its great to see trespasser objects in a textured level!

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 Post subject: Re: Trespasser: Unreal
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:08 pm 
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Brachiosaurus
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very cool to see more projects,pretty interesting comparing game engines,How is unreals terrain tools? are there many plants/vegatation available for it?.I played about with it a while back but was so much info available,I do wonder if unreal/cryengine and unity scripting for AI is similar.Like if a basic script for Unity character could be used in other engines.
I saw a jurassic park environment for UDK a while back,sure its already been posted but it was pretty nice -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vm2Bryhk2Aw

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 Post subject: Re: Trespasser: Unreal
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:32 pm 
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Parasaurus
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s13n1 wrote:
So with the level you have made, whats the smallest terrain detail you can make?

Well I think maybe CryEngine can do better one the actual Landscape plane, but the page I sent you is the Recomended sizes,
you can do higher but a map with bunch of objects in it this big will in the end have performance issues if going high detaled. At
the moment, the whole island is 1 map, if Ill keep it that way, no idea. IMO I think the landscape is plenty enaugh when it comes
to smaller detales but in the end its the materials and models that does the rest of the job for such as bigger rocks.

Quote:
How is unreals terrain tools? are there many plants/vegatation available for it?

Well UDK gets patched every month which sais a lot about the engine, always fixing bugs, always adding new features so thats great. There are a bunch of free models, models which you also get when buying a license to sell ur game. But no, not a lot of tree's but the editor has all the features e.g. Unity has, paint out grass and trees and etc.

On the scripting side it's a bit different, there are two different ways, 1: Kismet, its a graphicle way to do scripting, can make a whole game by drawing lines between boxes, should check it out, it's awesome. It good for people with no intention of learning a language but yet want stuff work in game.

The other way, and the most safe way is just like any other engine, real classic scripting, in UDK (Unreal) it supports UnrealScript which is its own language. It may sound different but it's not, its based on Java script, I'm educated in C# and it didnt take long until I could write some basic stuff. So yeah, Unity supports C#, java and another one I cant remember but I dont think it would be hard to convert it into UnrealScript.

Any ways thanks a lot of the nice comments folks :)


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 Post subject: Re: Trespasser: Unreal
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:11 pm 
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Compsognathus
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I might give this Trespasser objects or maps a swirl with my game engine once I feel like it. I dont know the exact numbers anymore but theoretically I can support maps up to 0.01mm precision on 1'000'000'000'000m ( 1^9 km ) size. I doubt anybody can fill that with plausible geometry without going insane :D . Would be interesting to write an importer for trespasser files. The terrain objects would be chunked at whatever resolution required but maybe I code in some time later something more clever.

Actually... with a proper file format specification this would be interesting to try out :D . I always wanted to implement the Smalltalk Scripting Module some more if I get the time. I'm using Bullet Physics so the Trespasser box physics would work out of the box without big work. Got a few weeks vacation this year... maybe :O

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 Post subject: Re: Trespasser: Unreal
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:32 pm 
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Modern game engines, another thing I'll never understand. . . :P

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 Post subject: Re: Trespasser: Unreal
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:52 pm 
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Dragonlord wrote:
I dont know the exact numbers anymore but theoretically I can support maps up to 0.01mm precision on 1'000'000'000'000m ( 1^9 km ) size. I doubt anybody can fill that with plausible geometry without going insane :D .

One word: Ringworld.
:wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Trespasser: Unreal
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:32 pm 
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Parasaurus
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Dragonlord wrote:
I might give this Trespasser objects or maps a swirl with my game engine once I feel like it.

You hang out a lot on Moddb/Indiedb? think Ive seen your project there :) (Epsylon)

Any way got some more pics from today, btw. I only got one plant and one palm, the plant is from original Trespasser and the palm is from one of my previous projects. There will be different
once in the future. Same goes for the rest of the terrain, Textures not finished and nether are models.

What I've been doing is basicly exporting/importing original models except of some of mine. Bringing them into UDK and remaking the map !Almost! like the original game, I've done some tiny changes
I think works better. Why do I want to keep it as close to the original game as posible? Well If I now really want to go for it with Unreal, I dont want to make an other Jurrasic Park game/mod, a
new version of Trespasser is more in my interest.

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 Post subject: Re: Trespasser: Unreal
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:28 pm 
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Looking good mate, great progress!

Just curious about you map, is it your own creation or a heightmap of the original beach level? I'm only asking because the scale looks to be different that's all.

Dragonlord, I mean absolutely no offence at all by this, but does this engine of yours even exist?!
You're always talking about it and i haven't seen a single screenshot of it! Some of the features you've mentioned sound really good, but are they just a feature list or is it real? It would be great to see it some time, because if its as good as you say it is, it should be a winner. As a Trespasser fan, you've got the opportunity to make a very real update for the Trespasser engine. Now that the source is available, you could use it as a reference and make it spot on.

I'm absolutely dying to play with some kind of Source modification, but no one has released anything!

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 Post subject: Re: Trespasser: Unreal
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:40 pm 
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Parasaurus
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@s13n1 well yeah it's mostly impovisation, got the TresEd open next to me to see about how it should look like. Regarding his engine think it's this one
http://www.moddb.com/engines/dragengine it sure has some nice features, and just the fact it's built from scratch, awesome :)

Edit: aah got you now s13n1, will have to do a redo on a few things, though the worst part is to import and export the models, take so much time lol. Gonna fix a bit on the island, noticed how you did it so thats a good start-


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 Post subject: Re: Trespasser: Unreal
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:17 am 
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Consider yourself frontpage'd.

And I found out that if you use standard img tags on the site control panel you can use offsite images, so I found a way around that little issue :)

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 Post subject: Re: Trespasser: Unreal
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:45 pm 
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Parasaurus
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hppav wrote:
Consider yourself frontpage'd.


awesome :)
I know you have seen this process before but I just want to be sure everything is in order before moving forward. Is this about correct?

Big thanks to s13n1 for giving me the landpieces as I couldnt get them into maya from trespasser without bugs.

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