The Trespasser Custom Level Video Project

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Re: The Trespasser Custom Level Video Project

Post by machf »

That makes no sense...!
Yes, unfortunately I feel that describes most of JPDS...
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Re: The Trespasser Custom Level Video Project

Post by awesome24712 »

Unfortunately so. :oops:

EDIT: Here's part 3 of JPDS Plains! :mrgreen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtXZ-j8Z2Kk

EDIT 2: Part 3 of JPDS Streams! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqsrVxvWB4I

EDIT 3:

Part 4 of Plains: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHYDDnR3wcU

Part 1 of Trails: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZGxAs8dRZE
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Re: The Trespasser Custom Level Video Project

Post by Zablar »

awesome :) btw awesome24712, been watching all of your videos, waiting for last part of beta96 series hehe
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Re: The Trespasser Custom Level Video Project

Post by machf »

An AK-74 (or AKS-74U, can't remember) with 200 rounds? That's insane... the clip only holds 30 rounds. Jeez...
EDIT: what?! The Skorpion too? That one (as you said too) shouldn't have more than 20 bullets...! What the ...?
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Re: The Trespasser Custom Level Video Project

Post by hppav »

Welp, just watched your part 1 of JPDS Trails, which was the first time I've seen anything of JPDS since Draco published those early screenshots of the inside of the EA that never made it into JPDS... What the hell is with that level design? So much walking.... with nothing going on.... Not even any interesting scenery...

Though I will admit, the explosive barrel idea was pretty good....
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Re: The Trespasser Custom Level Video Project

Post by awesome24712 »

Zablar wrote:awesome :) btw awesome24712, been watching all of your videos, waiting for last part of beta96 series hehe
Thanks! Yes, I've been kind of skipping out on Trespasser Advanced. I hope to do another episode or two today, we'll see. :)
machf wrote:An AK-74 (or AKS-74U, can't remember) with 200 rounds? That's insane... the clip only holds 30 rounds. Jeez...
EDIT: what?! The Skorpion too? That one (as you said too) shouldn't have more than 20 bullets...! What the ...?
Oh, yes, that. :P I suspect that Draco originally intended to be gun-loading involved, say, once you shoot 30 times then the gun disappears, a sound plays, and then it appears again with another 30 bullets, but he just never got around to it. And rather than giving it lots of ammo I would have made it more powerful, just one or two shots should be able to kill or immobilize it.
hppav wrote:Welp, just watched your part 1 of JPDS Trails, which was the first time I've seen anything of JPDS since Draco published those early screenshots of the inside of the EA that never made it into JPDS... What the hell is with that level design? So much walking.... with nothing going on.... Not even any interesting scenery...

Though I will admit, the explosive barrel idea was pretty good....
What's interesting about the level is that there's nothing from keeping you from skipping a whole lot of the level, honestly I could have just walked to the right once I started, eventually find myself at the embryonics station from JP///, and then continue up the hill to finish the level and have finished in part 1, but I wouldn't do that.

Another path I could have taken would take me through a prehistoric plant "sanctuary," and then take me back to the embryonics station (all paths lead there).

And at the very beginning is a split in the path that would eventually join back up with the main one, and it's infested with some mid-sized predator (can't recall).

And then I have two keypad codes to find, one for the embryonics station and another for the end gate, still have some peeking in TresEd to do.
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Re: The Trespasser Custom Level Video Project

Post by machf »

I tried loading JPDS again myself yesterday... and got bored really quickly.
Even looking at the level in TresEd bored me...

Too glitchy... I'm guessing it was rushed in the end, not enough time for beta testing...
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Re: The Trespasser Custom Level Video Project

Post by hppav »

Draco used to complain about how every time I changed something in a level I tested it out repeatedly in game. He also thought my opinions on the platforming he did in that summit remake he did were wrong... then proceeded to create that Amber mine the exact same way (as I saw after watching a few more JPDS vids awesome24712 made).

The things I complained to him about East Dock while we were finishing it up were the same things everyone complained about after release, but his "beta testers" were able to "play it just fine." I think he just wasn't one for bug fixing or extensive testing. Which is odd considering how long it took him to work on it.

Now, don't get me wrong... Draco had a good sense of putting individual locations and puzzles together, it's just that the areas between them he seems to just... throw together. And from where the end level triggers appear to be, they just seem thrown in random locations with no hint that the player is supposed to go that way.

If only he just made his areas seem coherent then they'd work well. I think his best work was on smaller more compact levels than these big ones.
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Re: The Trespasser Custom Level Video Project

Post by machf »

The problem was wanting to make JPDS such a big level and not knowing how to fill in the blanks, yes...

But that's not the only thing... he took Trespasser and made the level(s) in such a way that it became a run-of-the-mill FPS. He wanted to force the player to perform certain actions and prevent him from doing others which would be equally possible. For example, I beta tested one of the JPDS levels, and reported I had been able to access a certain part in a different way, jumping over a tree stump. What happens next? In the released version, you can't do that anymore and have to use planking... which quite frankly I hate, since the Trespasser engine doesn't handle friction good enough to rely on that. Oh, and there were no more beta releases to see if the "fixes" worked or made it worse...

Like I was saying, it was basically forcing a linear gameplay. And those invisible walls in places where you shouldn't find any... like when you're going over a smooth hill or such. The already mentioned unrealistic ammo capacity of guns. Taking away the regeneration ability of the player (while leaving the dinosaurs' one intact). Dropping the use of keycards and keypads to use passwords which you have to find and activate boolean triggers instead... JPDS, IMO, is the anti-Trespasser, the most un-Trespassery level I've seen.

Oh, and it definitely could have been split into smaller sections at some particular places, and used smaller individual terrains instead of wanting to share a single gigantic terrain among all levels.

And... you can have high-poly dinos in open areas with few other things around, or low-poly dinos in areas with lots of other stuff, but you can't have high-poly dinos in areas with lots of stuff... it's the perfect recipe for a crash.

And recipe #2 is too may physics in small spaces... try those toilets and you'll see. Lift the water tank's lid and drop it.

Also, I don't know why he never managed to learn how to properly import Anne's mesh into a level so that the health indicator would work... you don't have to be a rocket scientist for that! The HUD's basic reason was because of that...
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Re: The Trespasser Custom Level Video Project

Post by hppav »

machf wrote:But that's not the only thing... he took Trespasser and made the level(s) in such a way that it became a run-of-the-mill FPS. He wanted to force the player to perform certain actions and prevent him from doing others which would be equally possible. For example, I beta tested one of the JPDS levels, and reported I had been able to access a certain part in a different way, jumping over a tree stump. What happens next? In the released version, you can't do that anymore and have to use planking... which quite frankly I hate, since the Trespasser engine doesn't handle friction good enough to rely on that. Oh, and there were no more beta releases to see if the "fixes" worked or made it worse...
Yeah, looking at the vids I've seen, it looks like most of JPDS's puzzles were either rehashes of retail Tres's most hated puzzles, or even worse versions of them.
machf wrote:Like I was saying, it was basically forcing a linear gameplay. And those invisible walls in places where you shouldn't find any... like when you're going over a smooth hill or such.
I'm very anti-invisible wall. In the times I've designed levels I've tried to make the level itself provide the barriers to keep the players from getting outside of the intended playing area.
machf wrote:The already mentioned unrealistic ammo capacity of guns. Taking away the regeneration ability of the player (while leaving the dinosaurs' one intact). Dropping the use of keycards and keypads to use passwords which you have to find and activate boolean triggers instead...
I haven't seen video of a passcode sequence yet. Sounds like he has you find a passcode, pick it up, and it automatically unlocks the previously locked door without you manually typing it in a keypad?
machf wrote:JPDS, IMO, is the anti-Trespasser, the most un-Trespassery level I've seen.
Now now, it isn't anti-Trespasser... it's just all the bad parts of Trespasser put together with all the good ones taken away.
machf wrote:Oh, and it definitely could have been split into smaller sections at some particular places, and used smaller individual terrains instead of wanting to share a single gigantic terrain among all levels.
Well, JPO was originally going to use one single terrain. That was the plan from 2002-2009. Towards the end I was starting to make plans to instead use several separate terrains that were based on the main height map, mainly because I was having to sacrifice accuracy in the island's scale to get it to all on one island together.
machf wrote:And... you can have high-poly dinos in open areas with few other things around, or low-poly dinos in areas with lots of other stuff, but you can't have high-poly dinos in areas with lots of stuff... it's the perfect recipe for a crash.

And recipe #2 is too may physics in small spaces... try those toilets and you'll see. Lift the water tank's lid and drop it.
That's why I made the chairs in the cafe immovable, because I didn't want Trespasser to die just because someone picked up a chair and threw it at a group of other chairs. Granted it didn't do that in my testing with moveable chairs, but Tres still stuttered.
machf wrote:Also, I don't know why he never managed to learn how to properly import Anne's mesh into a level so that the health indicator would work... you don't have to be a rocket scientist for that! The HUD's basic reason was because of that...
I personally haven't done a whole lot of work in the area of custom characters. In fact, other than a couple attempts at reskinning Anne the only experience I've had is modelling the torso for that Nedry model. So I really can't comment on this part as I have yet to really look at how the player character is set up.
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Re: The Trespasser Custom Level Video Project

Post by machf »

hppav wrote: I'm very anti-invisible wall. In the times I've designed levels I've tried to make the level itself provide the barriers to keep the players from getting outside of the intended playing area.
Yep. If you need to place invisible walls, place them behind another object (a huge rock, or even a steep mountain, so that it will be attributed to that, and not to the actual wall).
I haven't seen video of a passcode sequence yet. Sounds like he has you find a passcode, pick it up, and it automatically unlocks the previously locked door without you manually typing it in a keypad?
Uh huh.
Now now, it isn't anti-Trespasser... it's just all the bad parts of Trespasser put together with all the good ones taken away.
The parts it took away are the ones that actually make Trespasser different from the rest...
Well, JPO was originally going to use one single terrain. That was the plan from 2002-2009. Towards the end I was starting to make plans to instead use several separate terrains that were based on the main height map, mainly because I was having to sacrifice accuracy in the island's scale to get it to all on one island together.
Yes, but here, you had barriers separating parts of a level, with only certain places where you could cross them, where you could have just split it...
machf wrote: And recipe #2 is too many physics in small spaces... try those toilets and you'll see. Lift the water tank's lid and drop it.
That's why I made the chairs in the cafe immovable, because I didn't want Trespasser to die just because someone picked up a chair and threw it at a group of other chairs. Granted it didn't do that in my testing with moveable chairs, but Tres still stuttered.
Uh huh. I've had that problem in the Pens, too...
I personally haven't done a whole lot of work in the area of custom characters. In fact, other than a couple attempts at reskinning Anne the only experience I've had is modelling the torso for that Nedry model. So I really can't comment on this part as I have yet to really look at how the player character is set up.
Well, JPDS's "Tasha" is just a reskinned Anne, so it's no big deal getting it right... or it shouldn't be, at least.
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Re: The Trespasser Custom Level Video Project

Post by awesome24712 »

Quite a discussion you guys are having. . .

But I just recorded Parts 11 and 12 of Trespasser Advanced. :) I wonder what I'll do now. . .
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Re: The Trespasser Custom Level Video Project

Post by Zablar »

awesome24712 wrote:But I just recorded Parts 11 and 12 of Trespasser Advanced. :)
Nice!!
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Re: The Trespasser Custom Level Video Project

Post by awesome24712 »

Well, at last, here's Part 2 of JPDS Trails!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4R20Hcv-vk

Technically it's not part 2, the reason's explained in the video. But for all intensive purposes, it's Part 2.
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Re: The Trespasser Custom Level Video Project

Post by hppav »

Were those rocks pre-rigged with explosives? Doesn't make sense that one fuel barrel explosion would cause three explosions.

I remember one thing that ticked Draco off was when I decided to find the filming location of the shot where they look over the EA. He assumed it was just a painting and not a real location... And it turns out it is a real location. And what he took as being a road was really the Hanalei River on Kauai. Of course it's still a road in JPDS. :lol:

The inside of the EA was originally going to be in JPDS1 as well, and he did do a lot of research into the JP3 arcade because it showed more of the inside of the EA. He even had released some screenshots of some of the rooms he had designed for the EA, but that was before he discovered the arcade game and obsessed over matching what was in that...

After JPDS1 was to be JPDS2 which I did some help in his pre-production on. It was while I helped him with JPDS2 that I told him about the hunter camp's laser fences that are in the concept art and in the Genesis game, according to the readme it seems he implemented it and credited me but I haven't seen it in game yet. JPDS2 was going to focus on the Worker Village, which he was redesigning based on the concept art more than the movie, and the aviary from JP3. I still don't know why he wanted to do a rendition of the Worker Village that differed from the movie while obsessing over accuracy for the EA....

I have no idea what JPDS3 was going to be, but it was supposed to be the final act in the project. I don't even know if it got further than basic planning.
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