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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2020 8:28 pm 
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Location: Canada, eh?
Edit:
As of 8-May-2020, RTJP has ceased development. A massive thanks to everyone who helped out, contributed and supported the mod in its development!

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Here it is, the final download for RTJP! Contains all of the levels in one package - note that only RTJP~Helipad, RTJP~Prologue and RTJP~Testing are truly playable - RTJP~Panama is also playable but doesn't have much to do, and RTJP~base is TresEd only. RTJP~base contains the most up-to-date version of the island, so be sure to check it out as well!
Installation is the same as other CE mods: place the "RTJP" folder in your "FMs" folder (or whatever you've named your mod folder), edit your tp_mod.ini file to point to this folder, and off you go.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/f8jx6mhwb ... 0.zip/file

Everything in this mod may be used freely within other Trespasser projects. If you want to use RTJP assets outside of Trespasser, please ask me first.
Have fun!
-TheIdiot

P.S. I intend open up the RTJP Private Forum for public viewing, where all of our secret discussions and mod development took place. Feel free to check it out and leave comments in it - it contains a plethora of research, development images, documentation, and the entire detailed story of RTJP.



Original post:
Well, guys...I have a bit of a story to tell here.

As of late, I've been feeling particularily stressed-out. The whole "being locked in your house" thing is not sitting especially well with me, especially as it warms up. I'm not much of an indoor person if I can help it, and I'm starting to get quite bored of the computer. At the moment, I'm helping a bunch of my close friends with their "coronavirus lockdown projects", and the amount of work required to do this, piled up with some other things, is starting to really get to me. I'm taking things one step at a time right now, trying to finish some things so I can move on to other things, which is going well enough.
Now, I always feel like I can come back to TresCom and play some levels to have fun, but there's one thing that's always nagging at me, and it's the immense amount of work which I've promised for everyone that encompasses what's left of RTJP. Just thinking about this thing gives me that sinking feeling in my gut, and it doesn't especially help that I've got a fair bit of resentment toward the latter half of the JP franchise at this point, after what Universal's done with it (i.e, slapped it on a plastic lunchbox). A project this size is just unfeasible to get done on my own...losing hppav was pretty critical as this essentially stopped all progress on the VC and such, and I simply can't match the speed and quality of his work. I'm not much of an accuracy modeller anyway, and the accuracy required to create a filmic Isla Nublar is something I often find quite tedious. Add that up with the hours and hours required to build the fences, place the plants, animate the scenes, etc, and you've got a project that is pretty much doomed from the beginning.
I know you guys have brought it up in the past, and I foolishly haven't listened, thinking "well, I'll just work on this mod forever and ever". But ultimately, the time would have to come where I wasn't going to have unlimited time or patience for this sort of thing, and recently in the past couple of years that time has come along. RTJP is an absolute beast of a project and I'd love to have been able to present it as I'd intended, at full-scale with all that good stuff, but in an engine like Trespasser without a dedicated team or even some freelance assistance, the whole thing is sadly just never going to happen.
So. I have to say, I think the end for RTJP has come. I've been thinking about this for months now, and I've decided it's the right thing to do for myself as well as the community. Bit of a letdown to myself, honestly - I'd really wanted to outdo JPDS as the largest unfinished mod, but it seems Draco wins this time. :P

With that in mind, there's no use sitting around with the whole damn thing on my hard drive. There are a lot of assets I think people can use, as well as the levels themselves, which I definitely want to put out there for anyone who wants to use them or experience what I managed to do with RTJP - as I've said in the past, I want to make sure these assets can be re-used by others. So I'm going to be releasing the complete RTJP project to the public in a bit, for everyone to experience what could have been.

Now that all that's out of the way, there are a couple of things I want to ask you guys who can see this Private Forum (which I think will be opened to the public).
I was wondering whether I should put some triggers into some of the level files which would give descriptions of various locations as I'd planned them. They'd just be simple text triggers, but would help to fill-in the missing parts of the level. Does this sound like an interesting idea?
Should I insert some teleport objects into Helipad - the main playable level - to allow the player to skip areas which can't be completed? I would also include a text trigger to tell you when to use the TNEXT cheat in order to proceed along without missing anything. The level is fairly linearly designed, so this would allow you to experience Helipad from near start-to-finish.

I'm really sad that it had to come to this (I have that feeling like I'm going to tear up over this...after all, RTJP has been around for ten years of my life, it's hard for me to let it go), but I believe this is what's best at this point. It will allow me to focus on other things which I find more enjoyable, such as Cloning Facility and MegaJungle.
And, by the way, I absolutely hate to let you guys down on this. That's the hardest thing for me as I know there were many looking forward to playing a completed RTJP level. But hopefully the taste of what might have been will at least be enough, and I hope my assets can be used in the future by others to create their own levels. :)

Does anyone have anything else they'd like to add here? Anything they think I should release in addition to the actual mod?

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 Post subject: Re: The Fate of RTJP
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2020 8:50 pm 
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When you say we can reuse part of it in our own projects, is there a limit to that? For example, taking all of it and trying to finish it by adding missing things here and there...

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 Post subject: Re: The Fate of RTJP
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2020 10:27 pm 
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TI, this is a very important decision you're making now, and from your description, I believe it's the best one. One of the main things I've learned since I grew old enough to be able to plan large constructions in whatever medium, was the importance of training the eye to see when a project is just too big. They are very pretty and shiny, and the brain can extrapolate the experience of successfully doing parts that, mathematically, would add up to a whole if given enough time... but this equation is missing several variables. These monsters become harder and harder to finish as you approach the completed version. Your struggles with RTJP in the past few months are nothing compared to what later development would have held, working on it on your own OR with a team. Really, an exponential curve.

JPDS... It only even barely began development of the plot-centerpiece, the Embryonics Administration. So much time was spent on the rest of the map, in part so that measurable progress took place. And because, internally, I was pretty scared of how complicated the work would have been, and secretly instinctually avoided working on it, to not stress myself out. I think it was MikeTheRaptor who was telling me, that I kept adding more things to JPDS as we were developing it, a very bad sign. I explained at the time that this was a reasonable process because I was only introducing things that had already been planned for in some way, but I was ignoring the workload it created. UGH.
Ultimately I came to the point where I had to start finalizing whatever had progressed enough in development, into a completed state... And there were the various unforeseen issues inherent to Trespasser modding, making so many huge things work. We ended up with the HRS as the only truly interior location, meant originally as a tiny side-location. The health system I designed was technically operable but I didn't have the sight, or time for beta testing, to realize that the Player would usually be far away from any healing options when they got dangerously low in health or contracted one of the various slow-killing ailments. It was just all too complicated and massive, even with Tatu's help in the final days.

So! JPDS is still a good memory, years of my life put into it and it has provided fun and unique experiences to Trespasser. One of the other things I noticed, years later, was that a large part of my Tres legacy at that time was the side-project mods I'd made WHILE creating JPDS. Why? Because they were of manageable size and actually got finished. No indeed, several of them were more actually-collaborative, like LostJungle and EastDock. JPDS is a fascinating monument but is not a complete success, due to its failure to live up to its original design. So, my advice: Leave RTJP behind now, as you are saying. Give it its due, release it in a satisfactory format, glean feedback. And move on. You have AMAZING skill in Trespasser, as I have seen, that continues to improve with time. Use that skill to COMPLETE projects now, projects where you can design new structures and not limit yourself to the confines of accuracy. Take environmental assets you made for RTJP and put them to use in your own visions. And importantly, take occasional breaks from modding; the creative mechanism needs to rest periodically, to refresh and have vitality. I am sure, now that you've made this decision, in 2 years time we'll all look back at several awesome projects of yours and say "Damn, he has made and finished some really nice stuff since then."

---

*sigh* On the details of releasing RTJP. Not everyone does or likes to use the TNEXT cheat. Part of that, I suspect, is that the Player is not in control of where they end up after typing the cheat. I therefore recommend triggers to teleport the player, at the spots which make sense. Accompany these with not-overbearing OverlayText descriptions of what things are missing, and what was just bypassed between teleports. I think that would work very well. As well, I am thinking, a small level containing whatever assets don't fit in the main (~helipad) level. Perhaps they can all fit in that testing level you showed me once (forget if you released it). Oh and, like JPDS, you could choose to make the hidden forum public.

TI, keep it up, and kudos on identifying your own limits. Our projects won't really thrive otherwise. May the relief of the stress benefit you in and out of TresCom.

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 Post subject: Re: The Fate of RTJP
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2020 4:53 am 
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Sorry that it come to this, but I totally understand it. It's a HUGE mod, and even small mods that require any new models take way more time that you expect.

For the release. I would say you would be fine to release it without adding those stuff. Instead include a document (and maybe an overlay map) that describe the things instead. That would be easier to follow and you don't have to think about how long text need to appear in-game etc.
As for other than the actual mod. For historical and archive purpose. Anything you have made for the mod? If that is assets (original Max ones just for archive), unused stuff, documents etc. It sounds a lot but then the mod is very detailed overall. And maybe one person will be inspired of it. :)

In the end, I am glad that you hopefully will continue to do Trespasser mods, and that this was not a "goodbye modding". :)

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 Post subject: Re: The Fate of RTJP
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2020 5:46 am 
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Thanks, guys. :) And I also have to say thank you for all the input and help you guys have given over the years, and the work everyone put into what they contributed. All these hours of discussions and PMs and such will always remain in my mind...hopefully once this forum is opened up, others will be inspired by what they read here to make their own things.

Like I said, it's a hard choice, but I honestly don't think even if I do manage the 30 years it's going to take to finish that I'd be happy with the result. Like you said, Draco, there comes a point where things just keep piling up and it gets more and more convoluted until you end up with this massive, potentially disastarous (not that I would say this about JPDS, mind you) mess.
I've known for a long time now that RTJP was impossible as I'd envisioned. It's like trying to make a big-budget movie but only having a few friends and a couple hundred bucks, I guess...doomed to turn out not the way you wanted. If I could have had it the way I wanted, Isla Nublar would have been full-scale and running on a far superior engine, but my love for Trespasser is going to make me stick to this for the rest of my life I fear. :P It's a good memory for sure, something I can always look back on as possibly my most influential experience in design. Never when I started that jpark level all those years ago did I ever think I'd still working on this leviathan.

Anyway, as for the acutal release. I have gone into Helipad and included a number of text triggers in key areas as you move through the island. Sadly as I don't really feel like going through it and editing out the areas which should have been passable, I have simply requested that the user resort to the FLY cheat in order to pass these areas. At the moment you can nearly walk from start to finish - the Helipad to the VC - while only having to fly three times for tiny distances. The text triggers also describe some key elements which were missing and also point players toward the Private Forum for more information, as this will be opened up for public viewing.

machf wrote:
When you say we can reuse part of it in our own projects, is there a limit to that? For example, taking all of it and trying to finish it by adding missing things here and there...

Go right ahead, machf. I trust you guys won't let down my work or hppav's. Remember without him, there would never have really been a RTJP at all.

Quote:
For the release. I would say you would be fine to release it without adding those stuff. Instead include a document (and maybe an overlay map) that describe the things instead. That would be easier to follow and you don't have to think about how long text need to appear in-game etc.

Those are already documented for the most part throughout the private forum. I pointed players to the detailed walkthrough I posted a while ago in one of the text triggers, which accurately describes my final vision of Helipad.

Quote:
As for other than the actual mod. For historical and archive purpose. Anything you have made for the mod? If that is assets (original Max ones just for archive), unused stuff, documents etc. It sounds a lot but then the mod is very detailed overall. And maybe one person will be inspired of it. :)

Well, I'll be keeping that folder around anyway as it contains a lot of things which are useful to me in other ways than just RTJP. The Max assets are scattered all over the place, I doubt many of them would be useful as most of their final forms are actually in-game

Quote:
In the end, I am glad that you hopefully will continue to do Trespasser mods, and that this was not a "goodbye modding". :)

Nah, I'll still be modding as ever, just trying to stay away from gigantic mods like this one for the time being. No more 4096x heightmaps for me! I'm sticking to Cloning Facility for the time being, where I'm not restricted from this or that due to some arbitrary fact about what I'm re-creating.

I'm on my other PC right now so I'll probably post the files tomorrow in one big package. Will upload everything not essential to playing the mod - i.e. RTJP~base and the documentation - in a seperate series of files so you can download just the playable stuff if you want.

I guess after the end of this, JPO and CloudIsland, you might say there is an "Isla Nublar Curse"...never in Trespasser has anyone been able to recreate the entirety of Isla Nublar in a single level. And after this experience, I doubt anyone ever will. :sick:

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 Post subject: Re: The Fate of RTJP
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2020 6:08 am 
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Quote:
Nah, I'll still be modding as ever, just trying to stay away from gigantic mods like this one for the time being. No more 4096x heightmaps for me! I'm sticking to Cloning Facility for the time being, where I'm not restricted from this or that due to some arbitrary fact about what I'm re-creating.


Oh rip our 8192x8192 Island mod :'( . Haha just kidding. I think you are still fine with that as you don't have to do all the foliage. ;)

Quote:
I guess after the end of this, JPO and CloudIsland, you might say there is an "Isla Nublar Curse"...never in Trespasser has anyone been able to recreate the entirety of Isla Nublar in a single level. And after this experience, I doubt anyone ever will. :sick:


Possibly. I think one "major" issue overall with those type of projects is that most of the time you appear to research to get it accurate to the movies. Which I think it is very difficult as it always appear they never had a proper full set/blueprint of it anyway. If anything, and if one would succeed. I think it would be that you would do many smaller levels that recreate "each" area but not generally not plan them all to be combined.

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 Post subject: Re: The Fate of RTJP
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2020 8:53 pm 
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tatu wrote:
Possibly. I think one "major" issue overall with those type of projects is that most of the time you appear to research to get it accurate to the movies. Which I think it is very difficult as it always appear they never had a proper full set/blueprint of it anyway. If anything, and if one would succeed. I think it would be that you would do many smaller levels that recreate "each" area but not generally not plan them all to be combined.

That's a big part of it. It's a lot to research, and there are always going to be so many conflicting opinions on things and research popping up left and right. Not to mention the issue of Isla Nublar being far too large for Trespasser's engine...RTJP as it is now had to omit a couple of key areas in favour of making everything fit. Notably, I never found a place for the fence climb gorge.

Anyway, I'm waiting for the file upload to finish and then I'll link it in the first post and move this topic to the public forum. The whole thing is just one big file because I figured you'd get the most complete, easy download that way. :)

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 Post subject: Re: The Fate of RTJP
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2020 9:01 pm 
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Yeah. I wished we could somehow make bigger maps. As original Trespasser can handle 65000 objects, I feel like if someone (Lee) could find the secret code to use modern hardware, Trespasser would be able to handle way more than that!

Let me know in PM or here when you want the private forum to be public and I'll do it, unless you already have that power. :)

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 Post subject: Re: The Fate of RTJP
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2020 9:32 pm 
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tatu wrote:
Yeah. I wished we could somehow make bigger maps. As original Trespasser can handle 65000 objects, I feel like if someone (Lee) could find the secret code to use modern hardware, Trespasser would be able to handle way more than that!

That was something I'd always hoped for in CE - increasing the object count.
You definitely can do larger maps...we know that from the Island Project, the game definitely supports up to 8192x maps (so about 8KM squared, if I understand correctly - still too small for Isla Nublar). I believe I've also imported a 16384x map and had it work properly, though in TresEd it doesn't really show the detail. Pretty sure anything above that starts to clip the terrain down.

tatu wrote:
Let me know in PM or here when you want the private forum to be public and I'll do it, unless you already have that power. :)

Sent you the PM just after you posted that - open it up whenever you get a chance. :wink:

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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2020 9:57 pm 
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I didn't even notice this post earlier. Sorry to hear that you're closing shop on this, T.I., but I can understand how
daunting a task this must have been. Creating large levels is incredibly difficult and generally speaking, more than
1 person can handle. I know that some people have pitched in along the way, but in the end the burden rests upon
your shoulders alone. It can quite literally consume you.

No matter what you've put out there, I'm certain it'll be worth the while.

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 Post subject: Re: The Fate of RTJP
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2020 10:33 pm 
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Quote:
You definitely can do larger maps...we know that from the Island Project, the game definitely supports up to 8192x maps (so about 8KM squared, if I understand correctly - still too small for Isla Nublar). I believe I've also imported a 16384x map and had it work properly, though in TresEd it doesn't really show the detail. Pretty sure anything above that starts to clip the terrain down.


Oh yeah. TresEd can't even show IJ outside of terrain edit mode.

Quote:
Sent you the PM just after you posted that - open it up whenever you get a chance. :wink:


Cool. I will check it out. :)

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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2020 10:49 pm 
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Just wondering, what was the detail level in that 16384*16384 level? 1m? 4m? 16m?

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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2020 1:12 am 
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Thanks as always, Rebel. Hopefully someone finds a use for those fancy building models you made, I left them in the Panama level for anyone who wants them.

machf wrote:
Just wondering, what was the detail level in that 16384*16384 level? 1m? 4m? 16m?

No idea. The heightmap (it was of Middle-earth, made it from scratch) was around 8192x I believe.

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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2020 3:16 am 
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Then the resolution would have been 2m (16384/8192). That's a LOT of triangles... was the terrain fixed with GUIapp or just left like TresEd saved it?

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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2020 6:34 am 
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machf wrote:
Then the resolution would have been 2m (16384/8192). That's a LOT of triangles... was the terrain fixed with GUIapp or just left like TresEd saved it?

No fixing. I literally just imported straight to TresEd and off I went. It was only a test, I didn't bother to properly create a .trr file or anything. I don't recall it being that many triangles, though. It seemed to have optimized itself after a couple of saves in TresEd as the actual heightmap wasn't exceptionally detailed. I believe TresEd will automatically delete unnecessary vertices after a couple of saves, which may have helped somewhat here. If you want to check it out yourself, I believe I may have linked the heightmap in the past somewhere, or I can just send it to you if I can find it.

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