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 Post subject: Re: TLC Patch PreRelease
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 2:13 pm 
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Brachiosaurus
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tatu wrote:
LCountach wrote:
Was there any version of BE where they showed where the airplane parts would be positioned? Or is it just something left up to me to decide?


Build 96. :)

LCountach wrote:
Are there are any more props/items that I missed?


Let me check what I can think of. :)

BIG LIST...

Thanks, I will have a look at all of these things later today.


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 Post subject: Re: TLC Patch PreRelease
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 3:38 pm 
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Brachiosaurus
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Tatu, I had a quick look around in Trespasser at the things on your list. I haven't done an extensive look yet.

In build 96 beach. I was unable to find the plane propeller location.

I did always think it strange there were two kinds of monorail tracks. One with the raised center and one without. I just figured the devs did this to make it easier to walk that long final stretch of track at the end of the level. Swapping some out to be more consistent wouldn't hurt. Although, I think leaving that long flat section at the end is needed. It would make walking it and the many jumps far more difficult. It would also eliminate the ability to place the boxes and crates as they did. I do also think it strange they placed the dirt road textures as they did. Perhaps they placed them when the map was still more flat? They when they edited it later to make it more hilly and neglected to fix them?

I did notice the chew tow in the Lab level. I wasn't sure about it. Like the layout of many of the levels. The devs made many changes. Some drastic and some very minor. It is hard to know if they did many of the changes for performance or design reasons. In many cases, they may have just thought the changes made for more realistic or better gameplay. The beach is a perfect example of that. The start area is very different from build 96 to 99 to 103 to 116. It seems they were experimenting to find the best setup. It has to be considered that changing many aspects back to how the BETAs were may not always be for the best. It is difficult to know what to change back and what to leave as is.

In PV I was aware there was a 3D modeled version of that "water path-thingy". However... it really creeped me out. I dont believe it was for water. It was probably for something far more evil. It is likely a sacrificial location of some kind. The Mayans would murder their victims and let the blood run down those paths. We have evidence of this from the game devs. There is that sacrificial knife model that was never put in the game.

In any case, I must compliment you Tatu on your extensive knowledge of all these items from the BETAs. Much of what you said was not in the lists I referenced.


Last edited by LCountach on Tue May 21, 2019 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: TLC Patch PreRelease
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 4:50 pm 
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-=TresCom Website Manager=-
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Quote:
In build 96 beach. I was unable to find the plane propeller location.


That would be in Build 55 JR.

Quote:
I did always think it strange there were two kinds of monorail tracks. One with the raised center and one without. I just figured the devs did this to make it easier to walk that long final stretch of track at the end of the level. Swapping some out to be more consistent wouldn't hurt. Although, I think leaving that long flat section at the end is needed. It would make walking it and the many jumps far more difficult. It would also eliminate the ability to place the boxes and crates as they did. I do also think it strange they placed the dirt road textures as they did. Perhaps they placed them when the map was still more flat? They when they edited it later to make it more hilly and neglected to fix them?


They probably changed it in BE to the flat ones for that yes. I was only thinking about those lying around. As for the dirt road textures. My guess they were placed for guidelines where the player path was planned. This is more clear in the 3ds Max version of an early JR version we have.

Quote:
I did notice the chew tow in the Lab level. I wasn't sure about it. Like the layout of many of the levels. The devs made many changes. Some drastic and some very minor. It is hard to know if they did many of the changes for performance or design reasons. In many cases, they may have just thought the changes made for more realistic or better gameplay. The beach is a perfect example of that. The start area is very different from build 96 to 103 to 116. It seems they were experimenting to find the best setup. It has to be considered that changing many aspects back to how the BETAs were may not always be for the best. It is difficult to know what to change back and what to leave as is.


I'd go with what you like. I personally usually go for a combination of all, but then we don't have all the changes they did in 3ds Max only and never into a playable state (like the changes seen in the Town Max scenes).

Quote:
In PV I was aware there was a 3D modeled version of that "water path-thingy". However... it really creeped me out. I dont believe it was for water. It was probably for something far more evil. It is likely a sacrificial location of some kind. The Mayans would murder their victims and let the blood run down those paths. We have evidence of this from the game devs. There is that sacrificial knife model that was never put in the game.


Draco fixed that knife for JPDS. ;)

Quote:
In any case, I must compliment you Tatu on your extensive knowledge of all these items from the BETAs. Much of what you said was not in the lists I referenced.


There are probably some more stuff I can't remember. Oh, and the buttons on the reception desk is missing in the one you put in IT. ;)

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"...there used to be more benches, but InGen's workers removed them during the evacuation in the name of framerate."

"The main laboratory and administrative buildings. This is where we made our work, where the real magic trick happen. When they are in need of height fixing, they'll come here." - Hammond


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 Post subject: Re: TLC Patch PreRelease
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 7:06 pm 
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Brachiosaurus
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tatu wrote:
Oh, and the buttons on the reception desk is missing in the one you put in IT. ;)

You do have a sharp eye! I was aware of this but didn't think anyone would notice.


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 Post subject: Re: TLC Patch PreRelease
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 12:12 am 
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Brachiosaurus
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I have run into a very strange problem. Tres CE will not allow me to import any more items into The Town map. It doesn't matter the complexity or amount of textures. Adding just one more item causes a crash when opening the map in Tres CE. This is testable and repeatable. Any item I import causes a crash. If I delete any item before importing a new one. I can import any new item but only one. If I have one to many items in the map and Tres CE crashes. I can fix it by deleting any item out of the map. It doesn't matter what item I chose to import or delete. There just seems to be some kind of limit. ATX does not exhibit this strange new problem I have run into.

I guess I won't be importing those buttons for the reception desk. I actually had 5 new items to import. I got three in and spent some time setting them up. When I tried importing the forth. Tres CE would crash no matter what I imported next. I then loaded a backup from before I started working today. Then tried importing different random items. Saving and testing after each import. Over and over it crashed on the forth item. I am truly stumped!

GeomAdd says this so I dont think its out of space.
Verifying PID...
Used 3.7MB of 6.3MB available primary texture space
Used 51 of 98 available palettes


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 Post subject: Re: TLC Patch PreRelease
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 3:59 pm 
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Brachiosaurus
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Update to this strange importing limit problem.

Knowing that I seemingly had only three of these unspecified import slots left in the Town map. I decided to import all five items I wanted. After setting them all up with TresED and testing in ATX. I went back into TresED and exported all five as a single TPM. I loaded up may backup from before starting and imported the single TPM. Surprisingly that worked! It seems to have taken up two of the magical unicorn slots for reason. I can now only import one more item before crashing again. I am really stumped!

I wish I knew that clumping items into a single TPM was a thing I should have been doing from the start. Big Bummer!

Does anyone know what this problem is that I have run into?


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 Post subject: Re: TLC Patch PreRelease
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 5:58 pm 
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-=TresCom Website Manager=-
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No idea what caused your issue. I know "Import Directory" can cause GeomAdd to crash on saving.

Could you PM me the version that crashes in CE? See if I can help debugging it? :)

Oh and Trespasser have a limit for around 65,000 objects so I don't see why it should crash.

_________________
"...there used to be more benches, but InGen's workers removed them during the evacuation in the name of framerate."

"The main laboratory and administrative buildings. This is where we made our work, where the real magic trick happen. When they are in need of height fixing, they'll come here." - Hammond


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 Post subject: Re: TLC Patch PreRelease
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 3:01 am 
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Brachiosaurus
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I sent a PM. Did the file attachment work?


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 Post subject: Re: TLC Patch PreRelease
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 4:17 am 
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I don't think attachments in PMs work on the forum...

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Visit The Carnivores Saga - a forum devoted to modding Action Forms' Carnivores, Carnivores 2 and Carnivores: Ice Age games
Tres WIP: updated T-Script Reference and File Formats documents
Sound name listings for the Demo (build 117), Retail (build 116), Beta 103, Beta 99, Beta 97, Beta 96, Build 55, PC Gamer Alpha (build 32) and E3 1998 Alpha (build 22) TPA files


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 Post subject: Re: TLC Patch PreRelease
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 10:47 pm 
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Brachiosaurus
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tatu wrote:
- Also that nighttable in TestScene belongs in the PH house.

I looked around at the plantation house from several of the BETAs. In which one does it show where the night table goes?


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 Post subject: Re: TLC Patch PreRelease
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 12:12 am 
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T-Rex Killer
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LCountach wrote:
In PV I was aware there was a 3D modeled version of that "water path-thingy". However... it really creeped me out. I dont believe it was for water. It was probably for something far more evil. It is likely a sacrificial location of some kind. The Mayans would murder their victims and let the blood run down those paths. We have evidence of this from the game devs. There is that sacrificial knife model that was never put in the game.

Heheh I'm curious what makes this creep you out so much? It was standard practice thousands of years ago to offer up blood or organs for success in various activities.

LCountach wrote:
tatu wrote:
- Also that nighttable in TestScene belongs in the PH house.

I looked around at the plantation house from several of the BETAs. In which one does it show where the night table goes?

IIRC it's shown in a prerelease screenshot.

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Image Image T-Script Reference / Trespasser Millennium / JP Dark Secrets / Tres File Box


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 Post subject: Re: TLC Patch PreRelease
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 1:39 am 
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Brachiosaurus
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Draconisaurus wrote:
LCountach wrote:
In PV I was aware there was a 3D modeled version of that "water path-thingy". However... it really creeped me out. I dont believe it was for water. It was probably for something far more evil. It is likely a sacrificial location of some kind. The Mayans would murder their victims and let the blood run down those paths. We have evidence of this from the game devs. There is that sacrificial knife model that was never put in the game.

Heheh I'm curious what makes this creep you out so much? It was standard practice thousands of years ago to offer up blood or organs for success in various activities.

LCountach wrote:
tatu wrote:
- Also that nighttable in TestScene belongs in the PH house.

I looked around at the plantation house from several of the BETAs. In which one does it show where the night table goes?

IIRC it's shown in a prerelease screenshot.

I don't know if I can answer you first question to your satisfaction.

Prerelease screenshot? Could you please point me in the right direction to finding said screen shot? Perhaps even link it?


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 Post subject: Re: TLC Patch PreRelease
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 6:04 am 
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I am gonna link to our Concept Art page itself: http://www.trescom.org/concept-art/
Under the level "Plantation House", 4th image from the left. Linking to the page itself in case you wanna look at all the other images. :)

_________________
"...there used to be more benches, but InGen's workers removed them during the evacuation in the name of framerate."

"The main laboratory and administrative buildings. This is where we made our work, where the real magic trick happen. When they are in need of height fixing, they'll come here." - Hammond


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 Post subject: Re: TLC Patch PreRelease
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 2:11 pm 
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Brachiosaurus
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Thankyou for the link. Something that jumped out at me right away was the second image from the beach. The shot where the pickup truck is used in the shooting gallery. It is very similar to the Beach from Build 103. I very much liked that setup and wished they had done something like that in the retail version.

Ohh and I sent you another PM Tatu.


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 Post subject: Re: TLC Patch PreRelease
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 11:04 pm 
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Brachiosaurus
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Little Update: I have still been tweaking the levels for a bit more polish. I want to thank you Tatu for the suggestion to "delete/move the road textures that are on the hills" in Jungle Road. After studying them. I am fairly sure they were placed when JR was a much more flat and open level. It seems the devs just never went back and updated their placement. Additionally I had a close look at the monorail pylons. From their placement and rotation. I am also fairly sure the devs never got to fine tuning their placement either. They are often rotated at strange angles and not placed in any form of alignment with each other. No hurricane or storm could explain their haphazard placement. So, I went through the level and fixed the placement of the road and pylons. I also went through and repositioned those huge rocks that were placed directly on the road. After making these little changes. The level suddenly makes more sense. I also went through adding and updating/replacing some props to reflect what was in the BETAs. I must say, I am very happy with how it turned out!


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