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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:10 pm 
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Velociraptor
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Whoo! 123MB! Darn I'll have to wait untill midnight to download or get a thrashing from my dad. :|

Ah well, I'm sure it's worth it! :)

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:23 pm 
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WOW!!! :o :o :o This level is amazing!!! But I'm having a problem with it (spoilers!!)... When I am walking through the tunnel, at a moment I suddenly die... What's happening?? And... How can I solve it??

Great level, Draco!! Congratulations!!


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:30 pm 
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Microceratops wrote:
WOW!!! :o :o :o This level is amazing!!! But I'm having a problem with it (spoilers!!)... When I am walking through the tunnel, at a moment I suddenly die... What's happening?? And... How can I solve it??

Great level, Draco!! Congratulations!!


You have to kill the dilophosaur. Look around for a weapon in the first area :P

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:44 pm 
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AWESOME LEVEL, well as far as i got until it crashed i love the jeep,(thats as far as i got :lol: )
You guys wont mind if i use some of this stuff in my level would you?

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:50 pm 
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TrentRaptorKiller wrote:
AWESOME LEVEL, well as far as i got until it crashed i love the jeep,(thats as far as i got :lol: )
You guys wont mind if i use some of this stuff in my level would you?


I said in the other thread that it would be ok to use the Jurassic Park Oblivion models in your levels. What that means is you can use any of the models that we DIDN'T take from Tres or TC-Isle. Just be sure to get all the sub objects before you export.

And yesh, the Jeep area is sort of buggy. I think it has to do with the amount of foliage or that motion sensor that's' in that direction.

EDIT: Seems Draco removed it, hmm, must be foliage that's causing it.

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Last edited by hppav on Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:54 pm 
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hppav wrote:
TrentRaptorKiller wrote:
AWESOME LEVEL, well as far as i got until it crashed i love the jeep,(thats as far as i got :lol: )
You guys wont mind if i use some of this stuff in my level would you?


I said in the other thread that it would be ok to use the Jurassic Park Oblivion models in your levels. What that means is you can use any of the models that we DIDN'T take from Tres or TC-Isle. Just be sure to get all the sub objects before you export.

And yesh, the Jeep area is sort of buggy. I think it has to do with the amount of foliage or that motion sensor that's' in that direction.

OK thanks and just wondering why cant i take the ones that are from Trespasser or TC-Isle.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:02 pm 
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TrentRaptorKiller wrote:
hppav wrote:
TrentRaptorKiller wrote:
AWESOME LEVEL, well as far as i got until it crashed i love the jeep,(thats as far as i got :lol: )
You guys wont mind if i use some of this stuff in my level would you?


I said in the other thread that it would be ok to use the Jurassic Park Oblivion models in your levels. What that means is you can use any of the models that we DIDN'T take from Tres or TC-Isle. Just be sure to get all the sub objects before you export.

And yesh, the Jeep area is sort of buggy. I think it has to do with the amount of foliage or that motion sensor that's' in that direction.

OK thanks and just wondering why cant i take the ones that are from Trespasser or TC-Isle.


I didn't say you couldn't take those :P I meant that you can use our original models (probably should have just said that)

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:06 pm 
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hppav wrote:
TrentRaptorKiller wrote:
hppav wrote:
TrentRaptorKiller wrote:
AWESOME LEVEL, well as far as i got until it crashed i love the jeep,(thats as far as i got :lol: )
You guys wont mind if i use some of this stuff in my level would you?


I said in the other thread that it would be ok to use the Jurassic Park Oblivion models in your levels. What that means is you can use any of the models that we DIDN'T take from Tres or TC-Isle. Just be sure to get all the sub objects before you export.

And yesh, the Jeep area is sort of buggy. I think it has to do with the amount of foliage or that motion sensor that's' in that direction.

OK thanks and just wondering why cant i take the ones that are from Trespasser or TC-Isle.


I didn't say you couldn't take those :P I meant that you can use our original models (probably should have just said that)

Ohhh okay now i understand :lol: , i was hoping for some extra cool stuff to put into my level :yes: and this levels got alot. :mrgreen: GREAT JOB!!

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:12 pm 
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Thank you! I'm off to write up the official walk through now for anyone having any serious trouble trying to find where they need to go or what they need to do.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:43 pm 
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Warning! Possible spoilers ahead...

Bugs I've found so far:

- intro movie plays on the top left corner, not centered

- if you turn around after entering the tunnel, the level crashes (this also happens if you come back from the other end of the tunnel), you need to turn around at the last bend and walk backwardsuntil you're not just outside the tunnel, but at a safe distance from it

- upon exiting the level, Trespasser crashes with a "fatal error" message


Annoyances/design flaws:

- climbing over those boxes on the dock and jumping over the fence, you find an invisible wall and there's no way to go back

- zombie raptor - couldn't you have used different ones instead?

- should give a warning about the remaining time to reach the dock (isn't that sort of thing possible, even without ATX? I guess a simple start trigger with a "delay" action followed by a "show text" action would do...)

- the override lever won't move if you grab it, you must only slightly touch it instead... you could have given it a grab-magnet

- I guess the reason for the download being so large is the additional .tpa files, are there really that many sounds, ot is it that they're just too hi-quality (in which case you could have lowered th3e quality a bit)?

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 8:07 pm 
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machf wrote:
Warning! Possible spoilers ahead...

Bugs I've found so far:

- intro movie plays on the top left corner, not centered


That's no bug, that's Tres.

Quote:
- if you turn around after entering the tunnel, the level crashes (this also happens if you come back from the other end of the tunnel), you need to turn around at the last bend and walk backwardsuntil you're not just outside the tunnel, but at a safe distance from it


I told Draco to fix that, too many objects are on the screen if you turn around. I thought he did. I also told him there was way too much foliage in the first area, but apparently he didn't think so.

Quote:
- upon exiting the level, Trespasser crashes with a "fatal error" message


Trespasser, for some reason, just doesn't like the level. Just be glad he got it so Tres loads it at all.

Quote:
Annoyances/design flaws:

Attributable to Draco building the level... And Draco's not here so I'll have to answer for him to the best of my ability

Quote:
- climbing over those boxes on the dock and jumping over the fence, you find an invisible wall and there's no way to go back


Well, that is a problem.

Quote:
- zombie raptor - couldn't you have used different ones instead?


They infinitely respawn, we can't have an infinite amount of raptors.

Quote:
- should give a warning about the remaining time to reach the dock (isn't that sort of thing possible, even without ATX? I guess a simple start trigger with a "delay" action followed by a "show text" action would do...)


It's never the same each time, Tres seems to pick a random time about 4.5 mins in.

Quote:
- the override lever won't move if you grab it, you must only slightly touch it instead... you could have given it a grab-magnet


The same reason why it's so hard to move the Flood Control Lever in the town, the hint, according to Draco, should tell you to lightly touch it with something rather than grab on. I had the same problem during the beta testing, you just have to do it that way. Keep in mind that this is the first FINISHED level Draco has ever done.

Quote:
- I guess the reason for the download being so large is the additional .tpa files, are there really that many sounds, ot is it that they're just too hi-quality (in which case you could have lowered th3e quality a bit)?


Draco put in a LOT of sounds, ambient sounds, music, voice overs, new dilo sounds, etc.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:37 pm 
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hppav wrote:
machf wrote:
Warning! Possible spoilers ahead...

Bugs I've found so far:

- intro movie plays on the top left corner, not centered


That's no bug, that's Tres.

It would be ATX, in any case, as Trespasser won't play videos upon loading a level. Doesn't ATX have any options to align the video on the screen?
Quote:
Quote:
- if you turn around after entering the tunnel, the level crashes (this also happens if you come back from the other end of the tunnel), you need to turn around at the last bend and walk backwardsuntil you're not just outside the tunnel, but at a safe distance from it


I told Draco to fix that, too many objects are on the screen if you turn around. I thought he did. I also told him there was way too much foliage in the first area, but apparently he didn't think so.

Quote:
- upon exiting the level, Trespasser crashes with a "fatal error" message


Trespasser, for some reason, just doesn't like the level. Just be glad he got it so Tres loads it at all.

I've seen that problem before, and I found what was causing it. Right now I don't remember what it was, though. However, I remember posting about it on the forum...

Quote:
Quote:
Annoyances/design flaws:

Attributable to Draco building the level... And Draco's not here so I'll have to answer for him to the best of my ability

Quote:
- climbing over those boxes on the dock and jumping over the fence, you find an invisible wall and there's no way to go back


Well, that is a problem.

Quote:
- zombie raptor - couldn't you have used different ones instead?


They infinitely respawn, we can't have an infinite amount of raptors.

Several different raptors instead of respawning, I meant. Let the dead lie there.

Quote:
Quote:
- should give a warning about the remaining time to reach the dock (isn't that sort of thing possible, even without ATX? I guess a simple start trigger with a "delay" action followed by a "show text" action would do...)


It's never the same each time, Tres seems to pick a random time about 4.5 mins in.

Where's that scripted?
Quote:
Quote:
- the override lever won't move if you grab it, you must only slightly touch it instead... you could have given it a grab-magnet


The same reason why it's so hard to move the Flood Control Lever in the town, the hint, according to Draco, should tell you to lightly touch it with something rather than grab on. I had the same problem during the beta testing, you just have to do it that way.

I don't remember having problems with the Flood Control lever, but anyway, I think a properly placed grab-magnet would have allowed you to grab the lever correctly - without one, you're just grabbing it any way you can.

Quote:
Keep in mind that this is the first FINISHED level Draco has ever done.

That one made me laugh really loud...
Quote:
Quote:
- I guess the reason for the download being so large is the additional .tpa files, are there really that many sounds, ot is it that they're just too hi-quality (in which case you could have lowered th3e quality a bit)?


Draco put in a LOT of sounds, ambient sounds, music, voice overs, new dilo sounds, etc.


I'm going to dissect those .tpa files later...

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Tres WIP: updated T-Script Reference and File Formats documents
Sound name listings for the Demo (build 117), Retail (build 116), Beta 103, Beta 99, Beta 97, Beta 96, Build 55, PC Gamer Alpha (build 32) and E3 1998 Alpha (build 22) TPA files


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:01 pm 
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machf wrote:
It would be ATX, in any case, as Trespasser won't play videos upon loading a level. Doesn't ATX have any options to align the video on the screen?


Not that I know of.

Quote:
I've seen that problem before, and I found what was causing it. Right now I don't remember what it was, though. However, I remember posting about it on the forum...


You likely did that and it got buried before we saw it.

Quote:
Several different raptors instead of respawning, I meant. Let the dead lie there.


Yes, but Draco told me that he scripted 3 different raptors to spawn . Plus the way the level is with detail, letting a large amount of dead dinos lie around would probably kill the engine.

Quote:
Where's that scripted?


I'm not sure, Draco did the scripting.

Quote:
I don't remember having problems with the Flood Control lever, but anyway, I think a properly placed grab-magnet would have allowed you to grab the lever correctly - without one, you're just grabbing it any way you can.


The problem with the lever is that Anne likes to let go, same thing with Flood Control. Everytime I tried to use that lever, I've had to back up and force Anne to drag it back to open the doors. Yet if I hit it with an object it moves easily.

Quote:
That one made me laugh really loud...


hehe

Quote:
I'm going to dissect those .tpa files later...


Go on ahead, but I'm sure he put in more files then he actually used. He ripped a large amount of sounds from the movie and found a lot of storm and boat horn sounds.

I know for a fact that there is at least one unused VO in the tpas, I think it's "Vehicle headlights are on and they're not responding..." or something like that. That's why Samuel L. Jackson isn't credited in the ReadMe, because the sound isn't used.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:07 pm 
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hppav wrote:
machf wrote:
It would be ATX, in any case, as Trespasser won't play videos upon loading a level. Doesn't ATX have any options to align the video on the screen?


Not that I know of.

Quote:
I've seen that problem before, and I found what was causing it. Right now I don't remember what it was, though. However, I remember posting about it on the forum...


You likely did that and it got buried before we saw it.


Found it, I remembered it had something to do with TC Isle. Looks like it was related to dinosaurs ahving more than 200 vertices attached to a bone, maybe one of the TC dinos has that problem or something similar...

Quote:

Quote:
Several different raptors instead of respawning, I meant. Let the dead lie there.


Yes, but Draco told me that he scripted 3 different raptors to spawn . Plus the way the level is with detail, letting a large amount of dead dinos lie around would probably kill the engine.

Hmmm, you're probably right about that.

Quote:

Quote:
Where's that scripted?


I'm not sure, Draco did the scripting.

I'll have to search throughout the level, then.

Quote:

Quote:
I don't remember having problems with the Flood Control lever, but anyway, I think a properly placed grab-magnet would have allowed you to grab the lever correctly - without one, you're just grabbing it any way you can.


The problem with the lever is that Anne likes to let go, same thing with Flood Control. Everytime I tried to use that lever, I've had to back up and force Anne to drag it back to open the doors. Yet if I hit it with an object it moves easily.

Checked that one, it doesn't have a grab-magnet either...

Quote:

Quote:
That one made me laugh really loud...


hehe

Quote:
I'm going to dissect those .tpa files later...


Go on ahead, but I'm sure he put in more files then he actually used. He ripped a large amount of sounds from the movie and found a lot of storm and boat horn sounds.

I know for a fact that there is at least one unused VO in the tpas, I think it's "Vehicle headlights are on and they're not responding..." or something like that. That's why Samuel L. Jackson isn't credited in the ReadMe, because the sound isn't used.


Several unused sounds? Hmmm, that's what I feared...

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Tres WIP: updated T-Script Reference and File Formats documents
Sound name listings for the Demo (build 117), Retail (build 116), Beta 103, Beta 99, Beta 97, Beta 96, Build 55, PC Gamer Alpha (build 32) and E3 1998 Alpha (build 22) TPA files


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:41 am 
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machf wrote:
Warning! Possible spoilers ahead...

Bugs I've found so far:

- intro movie plays on the top left corner, not centered

We have no control over that, we didn't create the AT and as far as I know, there are NO other values for the SMK-play AT. Ask BR about it. If you really want it centered, play the level in 640x480 (like me) - you'll get fewer crashes that way, I imagine, and better framerate.

Quote:
- if you turn around after entering the tunnel, the level crashes (this also happens if you come back from the other end of the tunnel), you need to turn around at the last bend and walk backwards until you're not just outside the tunnel, but at a safe distance from it

Well, no one else reported this error. If anyone can say they have experienced it (or want to try and find out it happens), please let me know, you can just post it in here.

Quote:
- upon exiting the level, Trespasser crashes with a "fatal error" message

All levels with additive TPA files do this, I've written an essay or two to BR about it but he doesn't have a fix just yet, and I'm content enough as long as it works.. it's a great bonus to be able to use them in the first place.


Quote:
Annoyances/design flaws:

- climbing over those boxes on the dock and jumping over the fence, you find an invisible wall and there's no way to go back

*thinks* Well, yes there's a wall in front of you, you can go back through the level if you want just by walking off to the left.. Hmm and well if you mean the wall that's in front of the gate to the dock, *spoiler* the fallen palm is intended to keep you from escaping the dock - if you manage to escape anyway, don't expect to get back in; if you're taking enough time to climb up that crate, anyway, it probably means the boat has left the dock and there's nothing really left for you to do except fight raptors. :P Honestly, I suppose I could try putting a palm which leans onto the fence from the outside, if you really want.. except that it's already out lol so it doesn't really matter. Anyways, I suppose your point is taken, I'll make a mental note.

Quote:
- zombie raptor - couldn't you have used different ones instead?

Not really. The problem is that having so many AIs in the dock area really bogs the engine down, originally there were 3 at a time (total of 6), and that really just didn't work. Those TC_Isle raptors are quite poly-heavy, it's not as easy to have so many of them as it is for retail raptors. This also makes them a drag on the engine while they're dead, so teleporting a dead raptor away after a little while was the best solution, and I don't regret it. Old games used to teleport carcasses away all the time.. :lol: I wouldn't do it if it weren't a framerate issue.

*Oh just thought of another reason. The scripts in ED are intended to produce *spoiler* unlimited raptors in the dock, after the boat has left. They will always come back - that's difficult to do without cycling the old ones.

Quote:
- should give a warning about the remaining time to reach the dock (isn't that sort of thing possible, even without ATX? I guess a simple start trigger with a "delay" action followed by a "show text" action would do...)

Heh, well that is an interesting idea. I really kinda wanted to keep it a secret from the player - Nedry really had no idea how much time was left, I'm willing to bet anything he was already very, very late when his jeep crashed. Oh and, something else. For an unknown reason, the ASA file doesn't always play at exactly the same time. It seems to have a range of about 10 seconds. Never determined why but I like the unknowing factor. I will say that you have less than 5 minutes to reach the boat, and you can use the "time" cheat to see how long it's been, assuming you're not using a savegame.

Quote:
- the override lever won't move if you grab it, you must only slightly touch it instead... you could have given it a grab-magnet

Maybe. I'm not sure if that would have made it any better, I can remember to test that for future puzzles such as that.. Anyways, the Hint you get at that point tells you some pretty easy ways to do it, also refer to Sam's walkthrough. Oh and, it is actually possible to do the lever only by grabbing. ;) Just takes way too long, don't try it.

Quote:
- I guess the reason for the download being so large is the additional .tpa files, are there really that many sounds, ot is it that they're just too hi-quality (in which case you could have lowered th3e quality a bit)?

Heh, okay I'll tell you... Trespasser uses "compressed wav files." These things are neat but.. well first off, WMP can't even play them (anymore), WinAmp or something else is required. I can't even begin to imagine how I would go about creating this format.. perhaps if a method is revealed to me, I can look into that for JPDS1. After some time I may release a listing of all sounds in the ED TPAs, there are a fair number but not that many.. Mostly vocals for Nedry, and ambient sounds, and such..

Glad you liked the level. :yum: :yum:

hppav wrote:
I told Draco to fix that, too many objects are on the screen if you turn around. I thought he did. I also told him there was way too much foliage in the first area, but apparently he didn't think so.
Yeah I get that a lot. :P Nem's level crashes a fair amount for some people.. not that it's a good thing.. but it's kinda worth it for those who can play it in such good quality, and you can keep yourself from having the error by not going backwards. For a level like JPDS1, I would be more concerned about that - but ED is very much a linear level, more like a race. Exploring can also be fun but it's a side point. Also, to everyone, remember that you can reduce detail in ATX2 by pressing the "[" and "]" keys ingame, which also keeps low-priority objects from being rendered.

Quote:
It's never the same each time, Tres seems to pick a random time about 4.5 mins in.
Ah, lol, there you go then. :P That is what I would have said.

Quote:
Keep in mind that this is the first FINISHED level Draco has ever done.

Heh, I've already corrected him on this, it's all good.. Mickey and I of course finished LJ together, and NPC was (about) as finished as TC_Isle :P

Quote:
Draco put in a LOT of sounds, ambient sounds, music, voice overs, new dilo sounds, etc.

Heh, well yeah, I guess it was a fair few sounds, they were all needed.. Among the new sounds is a complete 5-minute music track in wav format, I'm sure that adds some data size..

machf wrote:
I've seen that problem before, and I found what was causing it. Right now I don't remember what it was, though. However, I remember posting about it on the forum...

Please let us know if you find it or remember it again. What Slugger did tell me was that you figured out how to prevent SMK files from crashing the level, and I used your fix in ED, which also creates a 3-second delay after winED.smk plays before the level ends..

Quote:
Where's that scripted?

Yeah it's weird, isn't it. All those triggers are right next to each other in the basement, btw. Here's the script:
Code:
group Trig_LeaveDock = {
    int ext_GeometryType = 2
    string Class = "CLocationTrigger"
    bool ObjectEnterTrigger = true
    string TriggerActivate = "BoatBlock"
    int FireCount = 1
    int ProcessStyle = 3
    group Action00 = {
        int ActionType = 25
        float Delay = 256.000000
    }
    group Action01 = {
        int ActionType = 26
        string AnimationName = "anim_SSAnneB"
    }
    group Action02 = {
        int ActionType = 25
        float Delay = 25.000000
    }
    group Action03 = {
        int ActionType = 10
        string Target = "DockStairs00"
        bool Frozen = false
        bool Impulse = true
        float Push = 60.000000
        string Emitter = "$StairPush"
    }
    group Action04 = {
        int ActionType = 25
        float Delay = 335.000000
    }
    group Action05 = {
        int ActionType = 18
        string ObjectName = "SSAnneBext_A"
        string TeleportDestObjectName = "TeleDestSSAnneBsavegame"
        bool SetOrientation = true
        bool HeightRelative = false
    }
}


Quote:
That one made me laugh really loud...

:cartman:

Quote:
I'm going to dissect those .tpa files later...

Hahaha, I knew that was coming, be my guest.. There are probably a lot of used sounds you haven't encountered even, but some few are unused, mostly that were going to be used and simply removed. Those were all small ones though..

hppav wrote:
I know for a fact that there is at least one unused VO in the tpas, I think it's "Vehicle headlights are on and they're not responding..." or something like that. That's why Samuel L. Jackson isn't credited in the ReadMe, because the sound isn't used.

Eh? Well I don't think so.. there are many sounds in the recording archive I made that could have been used and weren't. The only unused voiceover I'm aware of is actually suspended in air.. over the gate area.. because it doesn't sound very good. I spliced the cuts of Nedry saying "Shoulda been there by now" and "That ain't good", which were shot together but in the movie are spliced.. it just didn't turn out well with the other sounds going on.

machf wrote:
Found it, I remembered it had something to do with TC Isle. Looks like it was related to dinosaurs having more than 200 vertices attached to a bone, maybe one of the TC dinos has that problem or something similar...

Wait, are we still talking about the level crashing after you close it? How does that have any relation to the additive TPAs? Because it only occurs in such levels that have them.. regardless of what dinosaurs are present.. But then, I've never tested and additive TPA level with retail or no dinosaurs.. I suppose I can try that sometime. :P

Quote:
I'll have to search throughout the level, then.

Haha, if you pay attention to the triggers in the playing area, you'll find plenty of references to things in the OTP trigger zone.

Quote:
Several unused sounds? Hmmm, that's what I feared...

Thanks, Sam. xP I'll list which sounds are used and unused when I make the list, sometime.. like I said, the unused sounds are pretty small ones, only one voiceover was unused.




Alright, I do enjoy hearing these technical crits and points on the level, it's part of why I do it, but I'd like to hear about what people enjoyed, not just what gave them trouble. :P Any voiceovers people weren't expecting to hear? New models that took them by surprise? Parts of the level they thought were funny or fun, etc.. Also wondering if anyone has tried to play parts of the level in third-person? For those who haven't realized yet, the player model is full-bodied, rigged by machf soon before Khaled was released.

And thanks to all the complements so far! :)

_________________
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Image Image T-Script Reference / Trespasser Millennium / JP Dark Secrets / Tres File Box


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