Physics Issues With Anne

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tatu
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Physics Issues With Anne

Post by tatu »

EDIT: For solution, see below.

I have noticed an issue that appears to effect fan levels overall.
For whatever reason, when importing Anne into a fan level, her hand physics appear to be messed up, which results in stuff like keypads to be really annoying to use. Let me give you some images.

This is Anne's finger physic box position taken from retail IT:
AnneHandPhysics001.png
AnneHandPhysics001.png (269.96 KiB) Viewed 31860 times
This is Anne's finger physic box position taken from Isla Sorna:
AnneHandPhysics002.png
AnneHandPhysics002.png (229.16 KiB) Viewed 31860 times
This is Anne's hand physic taken from Isla Sorna (and I have looked in a few fan levels to confirm they have this issue as well):
AnneHandPhysics003.png
AnneHandPhysics003.png (265.09 KiB) Viewed 31860 times
It appears that somehow the physics get attached to Anne's joint bone on her hand, instead of the actual place. This issue could also be why we can't experiment with different foot boxes, or change her physics. I wonder if this could also effect the AI, as it is possible something like their feet boxes ends up getting the wrong position?

I think this is an important issue to be aware of, specially as it will effect puzzles like keypads, or where Anne's hand much touch things.

I am unsure how many of you have noticed this (like Rebel or machf or Draco), do we have a fix for it? I think it is something to be aware of as a modder!

SOLUTION

EDIT: I have already found a working solution to this issue. It appears to be an issue with the TPM format, or with how TresEd exports Anne (as GeomAdd imports the GRF fine). I used an earlier GeomAdd version (2003-08-29) and extracted Anne as a GRF file, and imported it into Isla Sorna. This fixed the issue with misplaced physics for her. The GRF export is disabled in the latest GeomAdd (2003-09-15) but can be re-enabled. I will take a look to see if I noticed any differences with the AI physics as well.
This do not appear to effect the AI (by a short observation with the bones cheat).

GeomAdd 2003-08-29 can be found here: www.trescom.org/hosted/andres_james/Tre ... -08-29.zip

EDIT2: This will also fix the issue with Anne's arm feeling longer in fan levels:

TPM imported Anne:
AnneHandPhysics004.png
AnneHandPhysics004.png (260.16 KiB) Viewed 31852 times
GRF imported Anne:
AnneHandPhysics005.png
AnneHandPhysics005.png (269.14 KiB) Viewed 31852 times
Active project: Trespasser: Isla Sorna
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Nick3069
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Re: Physics Issues With Anne

Post by Nick3069 »

The main hand box isn't that bad, but I can see how the pointing finger not aligning would cause issues. How do you re-enable GRF export in the latest version of GeomAdd?
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Re: Physics Issues With Anne

Post by Draconisaurus »

Wow what an issue. I wonder if you are the first to ever notice it. Strange fix of an old GeomAdd..

Interestingly enough, I noticed a different error many years ago which now seems to be the same thing. You point out how Anne's arm is different from import compared to retail. Well, years ago I realized that Anne holds guns further away from herself in imported versions. I had always thought this was a bug caused by retail level files having a built-in fix for the relative magnet positions, as the solution was to change the hold-magnets' positions so that Anne holds guns closer. But looking at this error, it would seem to be the cause of the gun-hold error, rather. Fascinating. I wonder why an old GeomAdd solves the issue. Also I echo Nick's question.
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Re: Physics Issues With Anne

Post by tatu »

I used Resource Hacker to re-enable it. I actually re-enabled it months ago when I used it to re-arrange the TresEd menus to fit my needs, at it was randomness that I found this with GeomAdd.

I'll just attach the modified GeomAdd EXE here (Only contains the EXE):
GeomAdd_2003-09-15_GRFExtractEnabled.zip
(161.36 KiB) Downloaded 65 times
The way you use it is that you select a level, and then it ask for the model name, which is "Anne". It will save "Anne.grf" inside the GeomAdd folder. It will also extract all the physics and bones with her. It will not extract textures however, so either get that with TresEd and place in the same folder, or if you have Anne already in your level, just use replace mesh and instances. I haven't tried just replacing mesh but that should work as well, as she will be placed at 0,0,0 otherwise.
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Re: Physics Issues With Anne

Post by Draconisaurus »

Tatu wrote:It will not extract textures however, so either get that with TresEd and place in the same folder, or if you have Anne already in your level, just use replace mesh and instances. I haven't tried just replacing mesh but that should work as well, as she will be placed at 0,0,0 otherwise.
Hmm, I have it in my memory that GeomAdd might not import correctly if you Replace Meshes without the textures present. I want to say that it results in a textureless model, but not sure. As for not needing replace instances, isn't that needed for the correct physics positions? I guess maybe not..
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Re: Physics Issues With Anne

Post by tatu »

Draconisaurus wrote: Mon Nov 13, 2023 4:54 pm
Tatu wrote:It will not extract textures however, so either get that with TresEd and place in the same folder, or if you have Anne already in your level, just use replace mesh and instances. I haven't tried just replacing mesh but that should work as well, as she will be placed at 0,0,0 otherwise.
Hmm, I have it in my memory that GeomAdd might not import correctly if you Replace Meshes without the textures present. I want to say that it results in a textureless model, but not sure. As for not needing replace instances, isn't that needed for the correct physics positions? I guess maybe not..
No, if the textures are already present in the SWP/PID, it should be fine. I have never had an issue at least. But then people could just extract the textures anyway.

No, the physics are in the correct place in the level. It is in-game that is the issue. You can move the physics anywhere on the map, but they are assigned to a bone on Anne anyway.
Active project: Trespasser: Isla Sorna
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Re: Physics Issues With Anne

Post by Deadeyeguy_45 »

So this is what was happening! I mentioned some months back on Discord on how Anne will stretch her arm vs unfold her elbow when pressing right click. I always assumed it had something to do with the CE version of the game vs retail. I subconsciously noticed her annoying finger but thought nothing of it, really nice catch Tatu!
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Re: Physics Issues With Anne

Post by tatu »

Deadeyeguy_45 wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2023 5:39 pm So this is what was happening! I mentioned some months back on Discord on how Anne will stretch her arm vs unfold her elbow when pressing right click. I always assumed it had something to do with the CE version of the game vs retail. I subconsciously noticed her annoying finger but thought nothing of it, really nice catch Tatu!
The arm issue is something Draco pointed out years ago to me. I guess my experience with Isla Sorna allowed me to have some understanding of the issue. Glad we are still learning stuff :D
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Re: Physics Issues With Anne

Post by TheIdiot »

Interesting. Will have to port this into my levels as well then.
I wonder if moving around her physics boxes has any effect on making this better or worse, then? Or her bones? I've messed with the bones of CAnimals a fair bit and depending on where they are relative to the mesh, they can cause the body to deform in strange ways. I believe the physics boxes are attached to a specific bone in each CAnimal's body so it's possible the same happens with Anne as well.
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Re: Physics Issues With Anne

Post by Rebel »

Nice detective work, tatu. I always thought Anne's arm seemed a bit out of sorts in our fan based levels, but I simply ignored the differences.
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Re: Physics Issues With Anne

Post by tatu »

I wonder if moving around her physics boxes has any effect on making this better or worse, then? Or her bones? I've messed with the bones of CAnimals a fair bit and depending on where they are relative to the mesh, they can cause the body to deform in strange ways. I believe the physics boxes are attached to a specific bone in each CAnimal's body so it's possible the same happens with Anne as well.
From what I remember doing a year or so ago, moving the physics boxes will not do anything. They are assigned to specific bones. I know I have moved the foot box way away from Anne but it is still at her feet when going in-game.

Another thing I noticed after making this topic is how Anne's body physics is also a bit more forward as well, though I am unsure how much that would effect her. The foot box appears to be the same:

TPM:
Click on Image
(Click on thumbnail for full size)
Image
GRF:
Click on Image
(Click on thumbnail for full size)
Image
Nice detective work, tatu. I always thought Anne's arm seemed a bit out of sorts in our fan based levels, but I simply ignored the differences.
Thank you! I don't think it does effect Anne overall, except the appearance and when you do puzzles like keypads.
Active project: Trespasser: Isla Sorna
Status:
BE-PH1: Released
PH2-IT: Pre-released
PL-SUM: In production

"...there used to be more benches, but InGen's workers removed them during the evacuation in the name of framerate."
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