A new Trespasser patch/update (Trespasser CE)

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Re: A new Trespasser patch/update (Trespasser CE)

Post by hppav »

Lee Arbuco wrote:It's a tricky subject. There's a lot of stuff and it basically has to be reimplemented. The ATX source is available, but it's designed around an entirely different situation (injection code to and/or an existing exe).

I can't add all of it, at least not at once. What could help is if I could get some hints of what is most needed. For example, are the ATX actions high on the list? If so, are there some actions that are more important than others?
Maybe the most important ones would be the ones used in TC Isle... for the "spitter", for example, and for the twin machine guns firing at the same time.[/quote]

I like using "fly" and "flytele" personally. "fly" allows the player to essentially fly around the level. I use it to get above shots of some of the things I put in game. "flytele" teleports Anne to the location she has currently flown to.
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Re: A new Trespasser patch/update (Trespasser CE)

Post by Lee Arbuco »

machf wrote:
Lee Arbuco wrote:Does this still happen in CE? Could you tell me a specific level name that I can load in HW and SW and see the difference?
From what I can tell, yes, it does. Load any Trespasser level with the retail (or patched) executable, then alt-tab out of the game and back, and you'll see how the fog is a different color afterwards. Of load the TestScnNight level, exit it back to the main menu, load any other level, and see how it appears with the dark fog settings the TestScnNight level sets... this Trespasser bug consists in that the fog settings don't take effect until afterwards. I think it was a DX limitation, maybe...
I don't know if I'm looking at the wrong thing or I'm blind, I'm just not seeing it. There's no change for me. I know that I specifically fixed some kind of "coloring" bugs related to loading TestScnNight and then loading daylight missions, long ago for CE.

So before I drive myself crazy. Are you really really sure this bug is still present in CE? If so would someone be so kind to post two comparison screenshots (both made with CE) so that I know what to look for.

(I'm going to delay the new update until I have confirmation on the matter. If the bug is still present then I want to fix that too.)
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Re: A new Trespasser patch/update (Trespasser CE)

Post by tatu »

Tried it out, does not happen for me!

I did find another problem however. The loading image will have parts cut out if you using a high resolution.
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Re: A new Trespasser patch/update (Trespasser CE)

Post by tatu »

Here is a picture taken from Hammonds window, with the view of the Trespasser Reloaded town, in its full size. No lag, high resolution.
TPass011.jpg
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Re: A new Trespasser patch/update (Trespasser CE)

Post by Slugger »

That is fantastic, tatu! Yeah the high FPS is a really nice improvement without a doubt.

Lee, how difficult would it be to add self-shadowing? And any speculations why my virus scan seems to think your EXE is a suspicious file?
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Re: A new Trespasser patch/update (Trespasser CE)

Post by Lee Arbuco »

tatu wrote:I did find another problem however. The loading image will have parts cut out if you using a high resolution.
That's a known trade off, for technical reasons. I'm afraid it's going to stay that way, for now at least.

Slugger wrote:Lee, how difficult would it be to add self-shadowing? And any speculations why my virus scan seems to think your EXE is a suspicious file?
I'm guessing you mean terrain shadowing itself, since objects don't receive any shadows? I'd expect a decent amount of work, and questionable performance. From what I remember the terrain rendering system is caching the renderable terrain state (LOD based on current viewpoint). For terrain to cast shadows it would need to render the terrain from the viewpoint of the light, which means a second point of view within the same frame, which the system might not be laid out for.

Some virus scanners are very trigger happy with false positives. I don't know any specifics, more than that they look for certain patterns, and sometimes those pattern templates aren't strict enough I suppose. Early in this thread I did a check with an online virus scanner, that ran it through over 50 different scanners on the market, and it passed all of them.
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Re: A new Trespasser patch/update (Trespasser CE)

Post by machf »

Lee Arbuco wrote:
machf wrote:
Lee Arbuco wrote:Does this still happen in CE? Could you tell me a specific level name that I can load in HW and SW and see the difference?
From what I can tell, yes, it does. Load any Trespasser level with the retail (or patched) executable, then alt-tab out of the game and back, and you'll see how the fog is a different color afterwards. Of load the TestScnNight level, exit it back to the main menu, load any other level, and see how it appears with the dark fog settings the TestScnNight level sets... this Trespasser bug consists in that the fog settings don't take effect until afterwards. I think it was a DX limitation, maybe...
I don't know if I'm looking at the wrong thing or I'm blind, I'm just not seeing it. There's no change for me. I know that I specifically fixed some kind of "coloring" bugs related to loading TestScnNight and then loading daylight missions, long ago for CE.

So before I drive myself crazy. Are you really really sure this bug is still present in CE? If so would someone be so kind to post two comparison screenshots (both made with CE) so that I know what to look for.

(I'm going to delay the new update until I have confirmation on the matter. If the bug is still present then I want to fix that too.)
I haven't tried with TestScene, but here's my Pens level, where I used a different fog:
TPass092.jpg
TPass092.jpg (204.15 KiB) Viewed 14312 times
This is how it looks upon first load, with TresCE... it's the same as earlier with "regular" Trespasser or ATX.

And after alt-tabbing out and back, this is how it looks (the intended look):
TPass093.jpg
TPass093.jpg (169.36 KiB) Viewed 14312 times
So you can notice it better:
TPass094.jpg
TPass094.jpg (165.06 KiB) Viewed 14312 times
Notice how the trees in the far background don't have a whitish color anymore, as it was upon first load...
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Re: A new Trespasser patch/update (Trespasser CE)

Post by Lee Arbuco »

I see, thanks. Maybe the problem is that most (or all?) original levels have white fog, so that's why I wasn't seeing any difference. I've downloaded your level and will use that for debugging.

Update postponed until tomorrow, so I can fix this.
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Re: A new Trespasser patch/update (Trespasser CE)

Post by Slugger »

Lee, I meant a shadow from an object shadowing another object. Like in tatu's pic, if the three shadow would cast a shadow onto the concrete wall.
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Re: A new Trespasser patch/update (Trespasser CE)

Post by machf »

In other words, shadows over objects and not just the terrain, huh?
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Re: A new Trespasser patch/update (Trespasser CE)

Post by machf »

Lee Arbuco wrote:I see, thanks. Maybe the problem is that most (or all?) original levels have white fog, so that's why I wasn't seeing any difference. I've downloaded your level and will use that for debugging.
Just a note: that "early beta" of the Pens was meant as a joke. Unfortunately, when we switched servers, the original upload date was changed and people may not realize anymore that it was a joke... I think it did already feature the fog settings, though.
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Re: A new Trespasser patch/update (Trespasser CE)

Post by Slugger »

machf wrote:In other words, shadows over objects and not just the terrain, huh?
Yes. "Self-shadowing" was a poor word choice.
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Re: A new Trespasser patch/update (Trespasser CE)

Post by machf »

Multiple light sources would be great, too... but let's leave that for much later.
Also, currently, underground portions of an object will cast shadows on the terrain too. For trees, you can avoid that using the "planted" attribute in the t-scripts (which will in effect move the undergound vertices up until they are aligned with the ground level), but that distorts the texture. On a tree trunk it's not noticeable, but try doing it with a wall or something else...
There's always the option of disabling shadows for an object through its t-scripts, but...

BTW... is it my imagination or there used to be a "to do" topic which listed what things we would like to see fixed or changed in Trespasser?
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Re: A new Trespasser patch/update (Trespasser CE)

Post by Lee Arbuco »

The pens beta does have the colored fog, so it'll work fine for debugging.
Slugger wrote:Lee, I meant a shadow from an object shadowing another object.
Ah, so objects receiving shadows in general. That would be a larger undertaking. The only viable approach IMHO for that would be to overhaul/rewrite the rendering pipeline for HW only rendering, and then also do shadowmapping on HW.
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Re: A new Trespasser patch/update (Trespasser CE)

Post by hppav »

machf wrote:Multiple light sources would be great, too... but let's leave that for much later.
Personally I love dynamic lighting. Imagine having to turn on the power in a dark building which may or may not have dinosaurs in it armed only with a flashlight. I know TC~Test had some tests with faking it using a beam rendered like that light shaft in the TestScene. Also you could do colored/flashing lights on the top of a fence, outside in the dark. Very atmospheric. That and better weather effects (rain/wind/dust/etc) are on the top of my "Things I wish Trespasser had but would take a crap ton of time and work to actually do" list. :lol: Though I'll admit, BigRed's ATX rain did get me a bit excited, especially seeing it implemented in East Dock. Minecraft's rain looks similar, but I think East Dock does it better IMHO.

But cool things like that are further down the priority list, :lol:
machf wrote:BTW... is it my imagination or there used to be a "to do" topic which listed what things we would like to see fixed or changed in Trespasser?
I thought for certain there was one pinned at one time in the Trespasser General forum... Mandela effect or did it happen? I don't know because I can't find any such thread :lol: But we've been around forever so it may have existed at one point in time :P
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