A new Trespasser patch/update (Trespasser CE)

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Re: A new Trespasser patch/update (Trespasser CE)

Post by Draconisaurus »

Mmm. No idea if there is a localized TrnObj obj count limit. Why wary of taking obj count without terrain objects?
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Re: A new Trespasser patch/update (Trespasser CE)

Post by TheIdiot »

Draconisaurus wrote:Mmm. No idea if there is a localized TrnObj obj count limit. Why wary of taking obj count without terrain objects?
Because for all we know, the objects might still get loaded in some way, and that could bog down the level or cause a crash. Unless of course someone can check the code to confirm that the level does NOT load the TrnObjs themselves and only the textures. It's possible that the objects themselves are only loaded right at the start of a level, which would almost certainly increase the strain on the engine which seems to be at its highest upon level load.
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Re: A new Trespasser patch/update (Trespasser CE)

Post by Draconisaurus »

*thinks* Crashes in Tres are of course multi-factorial. I do not suggest that high trnobj counts do not increase the risk of crashing. Simply put, it seems that trnobj count and max obj count are separate dimensions acting in their own ways relative to level stability.
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Re: A new Trespasser patch/update (Trespasser CE)

Post by machf »

TheIdiot wrote:
Draconisaurus wrote:Mmm. No idea if there is a localized TrnObj obj count limit. Why wary of taking obj count without terrain objects?
Because for all we know, the objects might still get loaded in some way, and that could bog down the level or cause a crash. Unless of course someone can check the code to confirm that the level does NOT load the TrnObjs themselves and only the textures. It's possible that the objects themselves are only loaded right at the start of a level, which would almost certainly increase the strain on the engine which seems to be at its highest upon level load.
From what I can recall, it sort of does the latter - load the terrain textures and generate a new texture "on the fly" by combining them.
But I'm not sure if it only does it once, or each time the terrain is recalculated...

Also, the limit of either 65535 or 65536 objects exists because you can't address more than that using 16 bits (and it depends on whether "0" is the index of the first one, or used to mean "no object").
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Re: A new Trespasser patch/update (Trespasser CE)

Post by Draconisaurus »

...or 0 might be the Paper Airplane... :nerd: Hell then, if we consider that the p-airplane counts as an obj, the number of ingame objs might be even 1 less if 0 still counts as "no object".
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Re: A new Trespasser patch/update (Trespasser CE)

Post by machf »

The Paper Airplane has its own name, I think it's either PRS-RPA-Con or RPA-Con (can't remeber which of those two) and it's hardcoded in the exe file.
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Re: A new Trespasser patch/update (Trespasser CE)

Post by Draconisaurus »

Fully aware that it's hardcoded. But, does it count towards obj count? One might think so since 1) it disappears potentially, with the introduction of a DLight 2) being that it has the properties of other ingame objs (it gets rendered, has faces to be calculated) I would think it gets counted.
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Re: A new Trespasser patch/update (Trespasser CE)

Post by machf »

Or it may *not* be counted, just because it's hardcoded ("if there's no Light object, use these predefined values instead"). We'd have to look carefully inside the code to find out...
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Re: A new Trespasser patch/update (Trespasser CE)

Post by Slugger »

machf wrote:
TheIdiot wrote:
Draconisaurus wrote:Mmm. No idea if there is a localized TrnObj obj count limit. Why wary of taking obj count without terrain objects?
Because for all we know, the objects might still get loaded in some way, and that could bog down the level or cause a crash. Unless of course someone can check the code to confirm that the level does NOT load the TrnObjs themselves and only the textures. It's possible that the objects themselves are only loaded right at the start of a level, which would almost certainly increase the strain on the engine which seems to be at its highest upon level load.
From what I can recall, it sort of does the latter - load the terrain textures and generate a new texture "on the fly" by combining them.
But I'm not sure if it only does it once, or each time the terrain is recalculated...

Also, the limit of either 65535 or 65536 objects exists because you can't address more than that using 16 bits (and it depends on whether "0" is the index of the first one, or used to mean "no object").
I'm in agreement with machf, about the engine loading all of the terrain textures and then baking them into a single new texture (and hence not counting the terrain objects towards the object limit). That functionality is the heart of the issue that prevents TresCE from extending the use of the hardware-rendering texture overrides to the ground textures.
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Re: A new Trespasser patch/update (Trespasser CE)

Post by tatu »

I did some further testing. I had about 30,000 objects that are not terrain objects that is spread out on an area of BE to IJ.
On the same area as the whole island, I also added about 94,000 terrain textures.

The result: The level loads in CE. It does impact performance a bit and takes a bit to load, but my conclusion is that the terrain objects are not counted towards the max object limit. (I guess this apply to regular game too).
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Re: A new Trespasser patch/update (Trespasser CE)

Post by TheIdiot »

I did some further testing. I had about 30,000 objects that are not terrain objects that is spread out on an area of BE to IJ.
On the same area as the whole island, I also added about 94,000 terrain textures.

The result: The level loads in CE. It does impact performance a bit and takes a bit to load, but my conclusion is that the terrain objects are not counted towards the max object limit. (I guess this apply to regular game too).
Hmm, so it seems we're on to something then after all. Can't believe nobody's noticed this before!
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Re: A new Trespasser patch/update (Trespasser CE)

Post by Slugger »

Is there any practical case where you would need an absurdly large number of terrain textures though?
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Re: A new Trespasser patch/update (Trespasser CE)

Post by tatu »

Not really. The main importance is that people usually count terrain objects towards the total object count, while in reality, they could probably place more objects cause they don't count.
I mainly did this test in order to see if we could fit the Town into our BE-JR-PH-IJ project. With the terrain objects, everything would end up above 65k. However, not including them in the count, it is very much possible to do that now.
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Re: A new Trespasser patch/update (Trespasser CE)

Post by TheIdiot »

tatu wrote:Not really. The main importance is that people usually count terrain objects towards the total object count, while in reality, they could probably place more objects cause they don't count.
I mainly did this test in order to see if we could fit the Town into our BE-JR-PH-IJ project. With the terrain objects, everything would end up above 65k. However, not including them in the count, it is very much possible to do that now.
Beat me to the reply. In essence this would allow us to create larger levels without worrying about going over the object limit so quickly. Makes me wonder how many of the JPDS levels could be recombined into one...
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Re: A new Trespasser patch/update (Trespasser CE)

Post by Draconisaurus »

For JPDS and max object limit... As it goes, one day I was working on the mod (JPDS1? most likely), when the level started crashing for no apparent reason.. Somehow it occurred to me that object count might be to blame, so I asked machf, and he asked if the count was around 65536, which was very funny because my memory of the object count was quite close to that. And so anyway, AFAIK that was the first time anyone actually got that many objects in a level, and we assumed the count to include all obj types of course.. Now we know otherwise!
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